anamorphic lenses with r1, scarlet s35 and epic ff5

[Sanjin Jukic]

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[Fredrik Callinggard]

I've heard different things. A friend who claimed that they flared really nicely (but is not sure it was the V-lites and if they used streak filter in front or not). I've heard that you need to use their streak filter to get the flares? Don't know how true that is. Last thing was a friend who were shooting with them but said that they couldn't more or less get any flares out of them. He said as lenses they were astonishing but as ana's they were boring.

Now I have to test them myself to see what is correct or not, but no matter what it seems to me that they're a little like the MP's - almost to perfect.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

I've heard different things. A friend who claimed that they flared really nicely (but is not sure it was the V-lites and if they used streak filter in front or not). I've heard that you need to use their streak filter to get the flares? Don't know how true that is. Last thing was a friend who were shooting with them but said that they couldn't more or less get any flares out of them. He said as lenses they were astonishing but as ana's they were boring.

Now I have to test them myself to see what is correct or not, but no matter what it seems to me that they're a little like the MP's - almost to perfect.

The VANTAGE Blue-Vision®

No effect used

Blue-Vision® Ultra Fine 1,
perfect for shorter lenses at stops
between T1.3 and 5.6

Blue-Vision® Medium 2,
for longer lenses at stops
between T1.3 and T2.8

"The horizontal blue flare created by certain anamorphic lenses led to some discussions in recent years.
On the one hand this optical imperfection is quite irritating, because it highly disturbs the impression of the images.
On the other hand its technical look is appreciated as an additional design element especially where action movies and commercials are concerned.

The blue flare originates from an unfavourable optical construction and inadequate coating of the affected lenses.
To allow cinematographers to create the blue flare in a controlled way, Vantage Film has developed the Blue-Vision® attachments.
Used with the Hawk® Anamorphics which are otherwise completely free of those reflections, it allows to generate a very appealing flare.

The VANTAGE Blue-Vision® "patent pending" is available in two gradations Ultra Fine 1 and Medium 2 and covers a wide range of lenses.
Though the blue flare can easily be attained with this product, Vantage generally recommend to properly test the effect in advance.

Both Blue-Vision® attachments are exactly tuned to the performance of the Hawk® Anamorphics and offer an especially convincing solution
when combined with them. However, they can also be used with many spherical lenses of different manufacturers.

The VANTAGE Blue-Vision® is designed for use with an ARRI MB-14 Matte Box. A set contains two attachments: Ultra Fine 1, Medium 2.

Patented
German design reg. no. 40504902.1
VANTAGE Blue-Vision® is a registered trade of Vantage Film
Made in Germany"

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[David Mullen ASC]

Most anamorphic primes use big anamorphic elements in the front, which gives you a sharper image but that big cylindrical glass in front gives you that blue flare and other distortions. Most telephotos and zooms are rear-adapted spherical lenses with a tiny anamorphic element in back and don't have those optical qualities (hence why it was a big deal for some when Panavision recently built two zooms with front anamorphic elements.)

Hawk puts their anamorphic elements in the middle somewhere, which reduces the amount of anamorphic flare.

 

[Dominic Jones]

You might be able to get away with standard 2X anamorphic lenses on the FF35 sensor since they should fill the 24mm tall sensor height

Hi David,

Sorry to hark back to search an early post in the thread, but I was quite surprised by this info - I had always considered that an anamorphic lens would cover the standard anamorphic gate of (more or less) 21x18mm. Is it the case that almost all ana glass will cover a full 24mm height, or are there specific lenses that should be chosen or avoided when shooting for such a large sensor area?

Cheers,
Dom.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Anamorphic lenses usually cover the Super-35 width of 24mm even though they only need to cover the 22mm width of the sound aperture. Since the image produced by a lens is a circle, if it covers a 24mm width, it would cover a 24mm height.

 

[Dominic Jones]

Ah, of course - makes total sense! Thanks David, should really engage my brain sometimes!...

Cheers,
Dom.

 

[Jon Corcuera]

David is it possible that since the "compresion ratio" is smaller, 1.3 vs 2, it makes it possible to pan with shorter focal distance objectives. I just made some tests with some Ultra Scopes and they where beautifull for 4 and half / 5´6 f blocked camera but if you started moving the camera you had to go to a 70/100 to start looking good.
I open this question to anybody who has already tested de x1.3

Jon Corcuera
DIT

 

[A. Järvinen]

Since the image produced by a lens is a circle, if it covers a 24mm width, it would cover a 24mm height.

Hmm, I think this isn't quite so simple. If most anamorphic lenses cover 22mm * 18mm they would project an image circle with a diameter of at least sqrt(22^2 + 18^2) = 28.4mm. 22mm * 22mm area needs an image circle of sqrt(22^2 + 22^2) = 31.1mm which is larger. FF35 anamorphics (28.8mm * 24mm) would then need 37.5mm minimum diameter for image circle to cover it.

If the anamorphic element is at the back of the lens, does the lens really project circular image? I was wondering if the lens acts like it was spherical before the anamorphic element, then I guess the image (and the circle) would be squeezed when it passes the anamorphic element. The image projected by the lens would then be a ellipse and none of the calculations above would be correct anymore.

Best regards,
A. Järvinen

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I never said they would cover the full width of the FF35 sensor, 36mm. If they are 2X anamorphics and you are composing for 2.40, then you'd only be using a 1.20 : 1 area of the 1.50 : 1 FF35 sensor.

It may be an ellipse, not a circle, created by the anamorphic lens, I don't know.

You'd need the 2X anamorphic lens to cover a 29mm x 24mm area on the FF35 sensor to get a 2.40 image. Now maybe it wouldn't quite cover that, I don't know, but it's possible it would come close.

 

[A. Järvinen]

I never said they would cover the full width of the FF35 sensor, 36mm. If they are 2X anamorphics and you are composing for 2.40, then you'd only be using a 1.20 : 1 area of the 1.50 : 1 FF35 sensor.

I didn't say that either, I said 28.8mm width and used that in my calculations. I also said FF35 anamorphics which was maybe confusing and now when I think about it, I don't even know myself what does it mean (using full sensor or just the part needed for 2.40:1 final ar)

You'd need the 2X anamorphic lens to cover a 29mm x 24mm area on the FF35 sensor to get a 2.40 image.

Yep, I ment exactly the same and based my calculations on this. I'm sorry if my posts aren't very clear.

Best regards,
A. Järvinen