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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Amazing NEW Way to use RED!

I'm in the process of converting 6 hours of corporate interviews to ProRes. I don't have Red Rocket so my computer is tied up for two days. Time is an issue so I am forced to do a Half Res debayer. I would kill to have an acceptable 720p format right now.
 
Jay,

Did this same thing back in December and it worked fine. A church needed an extra camera for a Christmas presentation and a friend recommended me since I had a "fancy" camera. The tech guys were drooling over the chance to see a Red, but worried about it having an HDSDI output. Not ever having done this before I said let's give it a try and see what happens. I'm fuzzy now on which build I was on at that point in time, but it seems like I had to upgrade to get the lookaround to go down to 0 percent. But we matched the fps to 59.97 to their other cameras and the whole thing worked like a charm. Like you said, the output of my camera beat everything they were using and I never recorded a minute's worth of the performance. Just used it like a broadcast camera.

I totally agree, it's not what the camera is designed for, but I'm always glad when I find another viable way of using it that can earn some money. Plus, it had the added benefit of introducing me to more folks who knew about the Red, always wanted to work with it but couldn't afford it, and now are wanting me to come back for some other projects that would actually use it as it was intended. A good learning experience for all of us who were involved that weekend and some new opportunities that didn't exist before. That's what the Red and digital are about, right? New vistas and a new way of thinking.
 
I think this will be very interesting for use whenever we are shooting live concerts, now we can provide a feed via a live mixer to the big screens beside the stage - and charge even more ;-) .

I already use the Nanoflash with my RED primarily as a video assist.

Thanks for sharing Jay, I will have a serious look at this myself when my Mysterium-X arrives in a day or two!
 
Looks like you were right Jay, when you predicted some scorn for this - but there's simply no need - this is a different workflow for different usage. I work in live TV, where we'd love the RED look but don't have the time for transcodes etc.

Like you, I can see how this extends usage for many RED cameras, many of which are producing web content anyway.

I look forward to testing this with my MXO2 next week.

thanks for sharing.
 
I actually remember having these discussions back before the first RED was built.

Even then people were saying "but if you have R3D files, WHY would you use anything else.. THEY DON'T LOOK AS GOOD".

It also tears Jim up pretty bad (At least it used too) he spends millions of dollars perfecting an image, and then we run off and cut him off at the knees by using the SDI port.

I can understand everyone's feelings. Hell I SHARE them.

But if someone offers me $1,800 to shoot for a day, and I can either save $300 dollars in camera rental, OR improve the quality of my work, WHILE giving the client a little more than he/she asked for.. Then this is what I am going to do.

Any time, and I mean ANY time, I have control of the shoot, and/or post, then it's R3D's all the way baby.

Bottom line though: This has to be MY choice. Not someone else's. I don't want to lose options in worflows cause someone's trying to "protect" the look of the camera. That's not cool.

People used to also say "when something crappy comes out on RED it hurts us all". It was a pretty weak arguement way back when, but now it's worthless. There are literally THOUSANDS of projects shot on RED out there. And sadly, the footage off the SDI port, lit correctly, looks a LOT better than a good number of R3D projects.

Like all things.. It's the operator that matters.

Jay
 
Hi Jay
Just to add we have been doing this for over a year. Hundreds of hours of Red footage has aired on ESPN having been output directly to a Panasonic 1400 vtr. What's key to remember when comparing to a Varicam is that Red opens the door to many other Lenses. When we shoot high speed for ESPN we playback to the vtr and they walk with the tape. Works Perfect! Build 30 is totally outrageous.
 
This kind of production flexibility is a real plus. See Gibby's post about the Journey in Manila shoots. Live video from 10 Red cameras during the shoot for stage displays and r3d recording for the post production finish.
Recording to a plug and play TV station ready broadcast standard with a readily available low cost solid state recorder opens a lot of market territory if you want or need to pursue it. Even makes stringing news possible.


Aren't the new models supposed to support full 1080i/p output on the HD_SDI?
 
Another Often-Corporate User Says THANKS!

Another Often-Corporate User Says THANKS!

Yay! This totally opens up our RED for doing jobs that would have been done on the much-crappier 7D (which for some reason cannot focus worth a damn and whose LCD lies to us on a daily basis) or similar. If the client demands an immediate turnaround and doesn't have much of a budget, I can now work with them with the caveat of the limitations of 720p and baked-in look, while still recording an "archive" copy of R3Ds in case their indie short film gets into festivals, or if the corporate video turns into a 2K projected trade show event.

This is GREAT! And I can give the client the media at the end of the day and have them deal with it in FCP. Woohoo!

We've all invested a lot of money into RED, and every time I have to shoot on something lesser I feel like I'm cheating myself and my clients. By making these workflows possible, RED is definitely doing the right thing.
 
All work fine to capture HDSDI clean feed from R1 using AJA Kona 3:

HDSDI_Kona3_R1_01.jpg

FCP 7 Log and Capture HDSDI clean feed from R1 using AJA Kona 3 all work fine.
Here in this shot AWB was @ 6510K.

HDSDI_Kona3_R1_02.jpg

AWB is still doesn't work properly in B30, so the best way is to take a shot with
a digital photo camera and read the exact WB in RAW developer software.
I used pont and shot Leica D-Lux 4 and read its exact AWB in Capture One software.
That you can set exact WB in your RED very easy.
Here is accurate WB @ 3100K with a little help of Leica D-Lux 4 color metering described above.
 
Sanjin,

Since you are being so nice, experiment with REDcine X.. create an interesting LUT and upload it to the camera to see the effect. Back out of the HD-SDI

You could actually do a test for me if you had a DSCLab chart, or something similar.. I'd love it if you could shoot a chart to the Kona, then take it to REDCineX and tweak it to perfection.. Then upload it back to camera to see results.

If it works.. EMAIL ME THE DAMN THING! :w00t:
 
Jay
You can do a scene by scene color correction in camera for output. Or better yet create the look in camera on site for each scene using Red Color as a starting point then filter and tweak camera. Then playback! Results are up to the cinematographer. It's like processing but instant results.
 
Barry,

I've used the in camera settings but they are limited.. Do you suppose that the Redcine software will give you a lot more control over the image?

Jay
 
Jay,

did a simple experiment in RCX just with WB only.

The profile exported from RCX and imported to camera using SD card.

It works perfect.

RCX_GMBcolorchart_02.jpg

Gretamacbeth chart with balanced WB in RCX (shot on R1 with Canon 50mm FD L f/1.2 @ wide open f/1.2, 320 ISO, 24 fps, 1/48, LED light dimmed and defused.

Download 4K tiff >>>

Download the profile CAMERA_0003.RLK made in RCX >>>

RCX_GMBcolorchart_Kona3_01.jpg

FCP7 Log and Capture of the clip with RCX profile using Kona3 HDSDI card from R1.

Download 720p captured clip with Kona3 (Apple ProRes 422 proxy) >>>
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Thanks Sanjin, I knew I could count on you.

You don't have to test it, but do you think curves will work as well?

Jay
Click to expand...

Jay,

per your request: Profile with a Curve

RCX_GMBcolorchart_06.jpg

From RCX the curve applied.

RCX_GMBcolorchart_05.jpg

From FCP7 and captured 720p video with curve applied

RCX_GMBcolorchart_04.jpg

From R1 LCD and the profile with curve applied (shot with 7D).

RCX_GMBcolorchart_03.jpg

From HP Dreamcolor and R1 HDSDI 720p preview (shot with 7D).
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Holy crap..

Just want I wanted to know..

THANKS for doing this.

Jay
Click to expand...

Jay,

you are welcome.

Also to mention that RED should make HD-SDI outs all in SMPTE industry standard(s)

or the same like ARRI Alexa will get as Michael Bravin described once here at the forum.

Then we can try out to mach a look across different displays using HD-SDI capture.
 
tks sanjin...very helpfull
 
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