"Allure" - Screens/Video 1st Raven shoot! high fashion beauty. Thoughts on noise.

[Roger Alexander]

"Allure" - Screens/Video 1st Raven shoot! high fashion beauty. Thoughts on noise.



A few days ago, I did my first "real" test on my Raven with a victoria secret-esque beauty shoot as a personal project. Though I'm a director, I also wanted to showcase my DP abilities for hire as well as the slowmo capabilities of the camera. I shot the whole project at 4.5k at 60fps with some at 95 and 120fps, ISOs ranged from 640-1600 (and some at 2000). I really am impressed with the skin tones. Overall I'll say I'm pleased with the images I got, but I will mention that I'm a little disappointed in the amount of noise in darker areas for a camera at this price point. Granted, my ISOs ran high, and you don't always have a budget for adding more light to consistently shoot at ISO 250. Yes, you still have to "know how to shoot" and "have your lighting right" regardless of camera, but coming from the DSLR world, part of me feels like for a camera in this tax bracket, I shouldn't have noise levels relative to much cheaper DSLRs. I will mention that the noise is harder to notice when the video is playing, only when paused, it's hard to tell from these internet stills. But I digress, this isn't a negative post. Just voicing my thoughts. This is still my best looking project yet and besides that, I'm very pleased with my investment and feel like I've taken my work to the next level. These are ungraded snaps. I have added noise reduction into the final color grade of the video. Full video at the link below.

Video:

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P.S. - off topic, I was not impressed at all with the test video that came from the new 8k helium sensor "Underdog". It didn't look much different from footage I have been getting from the Raven which is the entry level camera of the brand. I would expect the highest level unit of the brand (that costs a million times more) to blow the Raven away but I did not see that at all. Now who's ready to fight me? lol

 

[Samir Patel]

P.S. - off topic, I was not impressed at all with the test video that came from the new 8k helium sensor "Underdog". It didn't look much different from footage I have been getting from the Raven which is the entry level camera of the brand. I would expect the highest level unit of the brand (that costs a million times more) to blow the Raven away but I did not see that at all. Now who's ready to fight me? lol

Roger, first off... youtube compression. Lol.
Second.... I am bookmarking your video to watch on my television via apple TV. The still frames look good.

EDIT: Saw your video on the television. Loved it... but during the rain scenes the image broke apart. (Doubt that happened during your shoot but I blame vimeo compression and/or my spotty internet connection. ) Speaking of which I think we need nationwide gigabit if we are trying to get 8K mainstream... just saying! (Jim is that your project 20-100 gigabit connections for all?)

 

[Alberto Guglielmi]

I don't see that much noise on the video, even pausing. It looks pretty organic to me. I like the quality of footage. I personally don't like the large change in skin tone between the different scenes.

If you shot at 2000 ISO and you had higher redcode compression to go to 120fps, I'd say it looks pretty good. I shot with a bunch of DSRL and mirrorless. I don't remember anything shooting 95-120fps so clean at 1600-2000 ISO. If you look how much DSRLs cost now, I think the Raven has a great ratio of cost/quality.

 

[AJ Aguirre]

Great shots and color, really!


But when I got to this part...

P.S. - off topic, I was not impressed at all with the test video that came from the new 8k helium sensor "Underdog". It didn't look much different from footage I have been getting from the Raven which is the entry level camera of the brand. I would expect the highest level unit of the brand (that costs a million times more) to blow the Raven away but I did not see that at all. Now who's ready to fight me? lol

Face in hands... hmm okay bud

 

[mike zorger]

What noise, all I saw is an amazing ass. Looked good, I do agree with someone above saying the grade / skin tones from the inside / outside were different. Seems like the outdoor shots are more saturated. Either way, that is a shoot that I'm sure everyone who's watched it a little jelly that they didn't get to shoot. solid work!

 

[Roger Alexander]

I don't see that much noise on the video, even pausing. It looks pretty organic to me. I like the quality of footage. I personally don't like the large change in skin tone between the different scenes.

I forgot to add in my original post (will edit) that I added noise reduction in the final grade. My thoughts were more talking about the RAW footage.

 

[Roger Alexander]

I personally don't like the large change in skin tone between the different scenes.

There wasn't meant to be matching skin tones between the different scenes. It was supposed to be a different look for each one and trying out different grades etc.

 

[Roger Alexander]

Face in hands... hmm okay bud

I would love to hear your rebuttal. "Youtube compression" aside, a camera that expensive should CLEARLY demonstrate dominance over its counterparts. What did you see in that video that you can't really do on any other RED model?

 

[Levi Arnold]

Looks good bro!

From what I can gather, the 8K gives you a smoother images because there are a shit ton more pixels to play with - while filming a circle on real film it would come out as a circle but on digital, that circle is made up of squares so the more pixels you can get, the smoother the image. In terms of color, yeah it's very similar, but I'd say it's a smoother image and also you can probably push into the highlights and shadows more because of the new sensor design and the DSMC2 processing with the new ASICS.

 

[Samuel Wolfe]

I like it. Which lenses and how many/what type of external lights?

 

[jake southard]

What export settings did you use? by the looks of the water scene, something was done wrong

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

What export settings did you use? by the looks of the water scene, something was done wrong

I assume you are talking about the bright yellow skin? I see it in the other scenes too where the bright blues go cyan. This kind of oversaturated highlight color is usually from a 1D gamma curve (maybe a strong curves adjustment in post?) as I understand it. Reminds me of Panasonic/Sony Cine/Hyper Gamma curves, which is not a compliment. Not particularly exciting color or DR in this piece but the subject matter is somewhat compelling...

On a high key piece like this it's hard to imagine noise could be much of a concern since there are so few shadows. Looks to me more like overexposure with all the blown out highlights and clipped colors.

 

[Jack Hents]

P.S. - off topic, I was not impressed at all with the test video that came from the new 8k helium sensor "Underdog". It didn't look much different from footage I have been getting from the Raven which is the entry level camera of the brand. I would expect the highest level unit of the brand (that costs a million times more) to blow the Raven away but I did not see that at all. Now who's ready to fight me? lol

Frankly, this is the beauty of the RED ecosystem. Consistency across all products, high and "low". What you're paying for when you buy the higher-end cameras is exactly what it looks like on paper: higher resolution, higher frame-rate caps. There's no extra "cinema sauce", no secret sensor upgrades, it's the same image with a larger cut. As for whether the price discrepancy is sensible? Well, look at it this way: when you're moving into $35k+ territory, most buyers (rental houses, pro DPs, studios, etc) see no difference between $35,000 and $55,000. Something to think about. And certainly there's also a huge difference in manufacturing cost (8K vs 4K, PL vs EF, build quality in general, etc etc).

 

[jake southard]

I assume you are talking about the bright yellow skin? I see it in the other scenes too where the bright blues go cyan. This kind of oversaturated highlight color is usually from a 1D gamma curve (maybe a strong curves adjustment in post?) as I understand it. Reminds me of Panasonic/Sony Cine/Hyper Gamma curves, which is not a compliment. Not particularly exciting color or DR in this piece but the subject matter is somewhat compelling...

On a high key piece like this it's hard to imagine noise could be much of a concern since there are so few shadows. Looks to me more like overexposure with all the blown out highlights and clipped colors.

No i'm talking about where the video starts falling apart when theres any kind of quick movement

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Very nice work. If I had to be really picky, I'd say that the rain could have been lit better. But really, don't worry about it.

All I can say about DSLRs is that they are false economy, unless you really have no money to spend. In which case, use whatever you can afford.

Perhaps the shadow noise issue was due to not Blackshading for that specific ISO+fps? AFAIK you still have to have the camera hot, hot, hot when Blackshading. I don't suppose you want to put up full sized r3d frames for us to look at? Just for curiosity.

 

[Dominik Muench]

beautiful work !!

 

[Roger Alexander]

No i'm talking about where the video starts falling apart when theres any kind of quick movement

Can you go into detail about what you mean by falling apart and concerns about export settings? I'm open to constructive criticism in hopes of improving next time

 

[Roger Alexander]

I assume you are talking about the bright yellow skin? I see it in the other scenes too where the bright blues go cyan. This kind of oversaturated highlight color is usually from a 1D gamma curve (maybe a strong curves adjustment in post?) as I understand it. Reminds me of Panasonic/Sony Cine/Hyper Gamma curves, which is not a compliment. Not particularly exciting color or DR in this piece but the subject matter is somewhat compelling...

On a high key piece like this it's hard to imagine noise could be much of a concern since there are so few shadows. Looks to me more like overexposure with all the blown out highlights and clipped colors.

Contrast was intentionally increased in the grade and the pool scene was meant to be saturated. The idea was to try out different looks as opposed to have consistency across the scenes. There was definitely some lighting issues in the pool splashing scenes that I tried to save as we lost sunlight. What other scenes (put the time marker) do you feel the color/skin tone was off? I'd love to hear your suggestions on how you think I could make this look better the next time around. Sincerely, I want to get better next time around.

 

[jake southard]

Can you go into detail about what you mean by falling apart and concerns about export settings? I'm open to constructive criticism in hopes of improving next time

Watched it in 4K on Vimeo, much better export looks fine!
As far as skin tones, they look fine to me. I personally don't really like blowing out highlights when I can help it. Might've been a stylistic choice

 

[Erick von Schulz]

Loved it.. That was awesome..