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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

All the dumb stuff on Red One isn't as dumb as sony

N

Nick Gardner

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Ok so after almost two years of shooting almost nothing but Red, it's easy to gripe about things. "man, why is it such a pain in the ass to set a frame rate in varispeed STILL 3 years in. WTF were they thinking with the mini XLRS? Why is there a giant Red logo when I boot up? " To be honest I can't think of any other ones right now. I am doing a job on sony f3s. All I do is miss high frame rates. I miss being able to pop into 3k for a little more reach on my lens. I miss a fucking brilliant VF that tells me everything I need to know about the image. These f3s are virtually useless in direct sun on a beach with white sand. You can't see the ob monitor and the viewfinder is a joke. The F3 is light, so is an epic. The f3 is small, so is an epic. The only thing I like about this camera, is that it makes me really look forward to getting my epic. Only it will be muuuuuch better than this.

By the way, the only reason this job isn't renting my Reds is because the producer has a friend who claims he had two Reds overheat while shooting slow mo on Sons of Guns and we are shooting in the south. The only time I have ever seen a Red over heat is one that is, well, I've never seen it ever. Not in Africa at over a 100 degrees, not in Alabama at 99 and 99 percent humidity. So if your cameras are over heating, get them serviced and quit screwing up everybody elses rentals.

Oh, I also miss the menu structure and a manual written by english speakers. I had forgotten how much sony manuals suck. I really miss 4k. I have to shoot 720p to go to 60fps. That's lame. The camera (f3) makes fairly pretty pictures, it's just an ass pain to use.

Thank you guys at Red, you are learning as you go, we all understand, but man, nobody out there makes anything close to what you guys are making, and for this, I thank you.

Nick
 
Yeah, I get used to seeing red footage all the time when I'm editing. Then, someone brings in something shot on a DSLR or HVX202. Then I realise, I'm just getting used to the best. Spoilt really... And yes, the frame rates. That one reason I will never own an Alexia or an other overpriced camera trading off it brand name.
 
Spoiled is exactly right, and for me, having used the Red from way back when build 16 was huge, it kind of crept up on you. Yeah the red is heavier than the thing I am using on this, but I would take the trade up in a heart beat.

Nick
 
Nick, I agree 100%. I recently did a 3 week job on the F3. Complete kluge set-up working with a KiPro mini. They were afraid of Red workflow. C'mon, after all this time? I used good glass and the images were pretty, but I sure missed the ease of use with my Red. And yeah, that flip out monitor is useless on the F3... and where are the easy to use menus? I just want to dial in my color temp. After you use Red for a while and then have to use another camera, you then realize how great the Red camera is.
 
Nick Gardner said:
Ok so after almost two years of shooting almost nothing but Red, it's easy to gripe about things. "man, why is it such a pain in the ass to set a frame rate in varispeed STILL 3 years in. WTF were they thinking with the mini XLRS? Why is there a giant Red logo when I boot up? " To be honest I can't think of any other ones right now. I am doing a job on sony f3s. All I do is miss high frame rates. I miss being able to pop into 3k for a little more reach on my lens. I miss a fucking brilliant VF that tells me everything I need to know about the image. These f3s are virtually useless in direct sun on a beach with white sand. You can't see the ob monitor and the viewfinder is a joke. The F3 is light, so is an epic. The f3 is small, so is an epic. The only thing I like about this camera, is that it makes me really look forward to getting my epic. Only it will be muuuuuch better than this.

By the way, the only reason this job isn't renting my Reds is because the producer has a friend who claims he had two Reds overheat while shooting slow mo on Sons of Guns and we are shooting in the south. The only time I have ever seen a Red over heat is one that is, well, I've never seen it ever. Not in Africa at over a 100 degrees, not in Alabama at 99 and 99 percent humidity. So if your cameras are over heating, get them serviced and quit screwing up everybody elses rentals.

Oh, I also miss the menu structure and a manual written by english speakers. I had forgotten how much sony manuals suck. I really miss 4k. I have to shoot 720p to go to 60fps. That's lame. The camera (f3) makes fairly pretty pictures, it's just an ass pain to use.

Thank you guys at Red, you are learning as you go, we all understand, but man, nobody out there makes anything close to what you guys are making, and for this, I thank you.

Nick
Click to expand...

Had same experience - same conclusions - although I missed not having to fudge with light balance or worry about it, missed knowing I could frame a bit wide and re-crop later, missed many other things you did not mention - most of all the latitude which can be brought back in a grade. In the end shooting with lesser cams costs more and is much slower.
 
720p for 60fps isn't lame, it is pathetic.

A friend that works in a big L.A. rental house recently told me Alexa has the horsepower to do 120fps, "they just haven't gotten the firmware ready for it..." I laughed, politely. Then I told him there was no way without a hardware upgrade, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt... with a huge grin on my face. :)
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
720p for 60fps isn't lame, it is pathetic.

A friend that works in a big L.A. rental house recently told me Alexa has the horsepower to do 120fps, "they just haven't gotten the firmware ready for it..." I laughed, politely. Then I told him there was no way without a hardware upgrade, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt... with a huge grin on my face. :)
Click to expand...

actually it was a official announcement from arri, and it's unwindowed. but still has it's limitations. you can only do it in pro res hq instead of 4x4. also no way to get that RAW, because arriraw derives from T link, which is your dual link sdi which doesn't support 120 fps. I"m guessing you'll lose your sdi tap while recording at 120.

for a lot of TV productions it's more than adequate for them. but standards change as the demand goes up, it just takes time. i mean, everybody though 720p was enough, before that it was SD. etc. etc.
 
same happened to me.....
i am now used to 100 fps christal clear 5k...that even 2k 100 fps felt low....hehe....i guess shooting with futurama cams today has this effect on users.
and yes, i can configure the epic the way my marriage tortured body can handle the cam one handed. (+ 15 pounds in 4 years and no sport )
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
720p for 60fps isn't lame, it is pathetic.

A friend that works in a big L.A. rental house recently told me Alexa has the horsepower to do 120fps, "they just haven't gotten the firmware ready for it..." I laughed, politely. Then I told him there was no way without a hardware upgrade, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt... with a huge grin on my face. :)
Click to expand...

Hi Roberto,

I believe your friend was right... 120fps will be coming later this year (firmware update, according to Arri): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkwL-C5Wo1w&feature=player_embedded#at=39

still it doesn't beat the Epic!
 
Oops... even with the worrisome 4:2:2 limitation, that is a very respectable 2k camera! Hat is off, Arri! I love versatility.

I never thought about the possibility of going 4:2:2 for higher framerates... and he didn't mention that.
Well, I was right about everything else, so I still get to be the obnoxious "I told you so" guy :)
 
Roberto - the official line is that the camera will do 120fps to "internal storage" - and given that they haven't announced a different media module and that Sony has yet to release the 64GB SXS PRO I think you can put two and two together.
 
Unfortunately, overheating is a real issue. When we shot our first film, it was during the summer of 2008 here in Kansas City, and even indoors at 90 degrees (not out in the direct sun), both our REDs overheated constantly. We had to keep ice packs on them almost all the time when it was hot in order to be able to keep shooting. Anytime we were outdoors in the sun, we had to keep the cameras packed in ice.

But, boy, do we love our M-X!

Stephen
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
Unfortunately, overheating is a real issue. When we shot our first film, it was during the summer of 2008 here in Kansas City, and even indoors at 90 degrees (not out in the direct sun), both our REDs overheated constantly. We had to keep ice packs on them almost all the time when it was hot in order to be able to keep shooting. Anytime we were outdoors in the sun, we had to keep the cameras packed in ice.

But, boy, do we love our M-X!

Stephen
Click to expand...
What were the symptoms? Would camera shut down? How were the fans set?

I have only seen my camera have problem with heat once, and I'm still not sure it was heat that was the problem. Seems to be a camera to camera situation.

Fo what it's worth, I have seen the Alexa have heat issues, in a controlled studio environment nonetheless. I suppose it's one of those things we have to deal with from time to time. They are computers after all.
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
Unfortunately, overheating is a real issue. When we shot our first film, it was during the summer of 2008 here in Kansas City, and even indoors at 90 degrees (not out in the direct sun), both our REDs overheated constantly. We had to keep ice packs on them almost all the time when it was hot in order to be able to keep shooting. Anytime we were outdoors in the sun, we had to keep the cameras packed in ice.

But, boy, do we love our M-X!

Stephen
Click to expand...

For some people. I've been shooting many hours a day outside in direct sun here in Houston for the last month where temps have been consistently 90-100...haven't had any issues with overheating.
 
I've had over heating issues ones - BUT that was when we we're shooting a crane shot over water with a helicopter hovering above the crane whipping up water drops all over the RED. We wrapped the red in plastic bags to prevent it from getting wet. It was 80 fahrenheit outside.... what we're you to expect LOL

When we got ice packs it worked fine...

Otherwise... if you keep your fan on maximum and shadow the RED it works fine (at least for me)
 
Overheating only happens when the fan is set to off on record, and you do really long takes - in my experience. I shot for 2 weeks in the remote desert in 100+ degrees, never overheated - but we were not shooting long takes. Bottom line I think, RED 1's do NOT overheat, if the fan can run often enough. If the fan is off/low in high enough heat, for long enough, it will overheat. Usually, this is on docs for long interviews for us - and THEN we use ice or flag it out of the sun. The operator has to know to set the fan correctly in the menu, I bet that is 90% of the problem 90% of the time.

End post # 3,487 about this subject.
 
Cail Young said:
Roberto - the official line is that the camera will do 120fps to "internal storage" - and given that they haven't announced a different media module and that Sony has yet to release the 64GB SXS PRO I think you can put two and two together.
Click to expand...

Wait, I don't follow (maybe that's the whole point, right?)

"Internal storage" sounds like some sort of big buffer memory, so only a short burst of 2k 120fps 4:2:2 will be possible?? And are you saying they consider SxS cards internal?

And, why would 2k 120fps 4:2:2 to a deck not be possible possible? Sorry if the enabled/disabled connections mentioned earlier would explain that. I am not a full-on AC so I am not sure what those mean.

Anyway, why bother when there's Epic... :)

(disguised in a fake sneeze)
Told'y'so!

:troll:
 
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