Alexa Vs. Epic Vs. Scarlet Continued...

[Ned Wilson]

You may be here to learn but it doesn't seem like you've made much of an effort to do any research... There are a lot of posts about HDRx and Jim, himself has spent a considerable amount of time and effort posting about it. I doubt anyone is going to be able to "enlighten" you in one or two posts but to answer your questions...

- HDRx is exactly twice the data rate of shooting normally, so twice the bandwidth and storage
- It can add up to 6 stops to your normal exposure so you are looking at a total dynamic range of about 18 stops
- doubtful that HDRx can be recorded straight to anything else as, right now, it can only be re-combined in post
- there are some good examples around of motion blur characteristics
- motion blur with HDRxcan be handled a couple different ways in post

Enjoy your research! :001_smile:

My apologies, I'm a bit new to his site and I'm doing my best to avoid being scolded. It's really a minefield of sensitivities out there - ASA not included. I did find Jim's notice on hdrx and found it amazingly informative. Thanks. I've looked for good motion blur testing and have failed to find it. If I had an Epic, I'd do it myself. Ah but one must wait and hope. But I was hoping from some on the field reports as well as thorough tests that go beyond "play" footage. Either way, your answer had moments of enlightenment and I appreciate that.

 

[Ned Wilson]

Jesus what a silly thread. I'm surprised that moderators hasn't shut this one down already? What good does all this nagging with each other do? There's no actual constructive cinematography sharing at all. Just a lot of fanboy flame wars.

Please, direct me to an alternate forum that I can ask questions with out people getting personal or impugning my character. I've been in the business for 20 years and usually, amongst colleagues, information is readily shared and I go by the old adage, the dumbest question is the one you don't ask. I'm really fishing for info and not to inflame sensitive souls.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Well for one, I would look at the doctor's track record and what kind of hospital he's working at, and if it's all good... I would just take his word for it. I would know, that as a patient and NOT the doctor, I am in absolutely no position to pass judgment on the tools being used. Why do so many people care about the presentation of something so much? It's really a caveman-like way of thinking, especially in today's world of ever-shrinking technology.

Whenever I'm shooting something on a smaller camera system, like a DSLR, and a client or someone asks... "you're really going to shoot the whole thing on that?". I just respond with something like "think about your laptop... then think about your computer 10 years ago... now STFup!"

Epic and Scarlet are catering towards a younger generation of digital cinematographers who are used to working with technology like touchscreens and fly-by-wire controls and capable of understanding the work-flow from start to finish. They are not for old fogey industry veterans who are used to working on camera systems where everything has it's own dial and you're only responsible for ONE aspect of shooting. There is absolutely no reason at all that cameras should not keeping getting smaller and more inclusive. People that are trying to look "impressive" on set with big cameras and lenses should really not be shooting anything... your work that got you the job in the first place should be speaking for you, not your gear-size.

There you go with the "should" word. I don't pay my rent with checks I "should" get, given to me based on thinking clients "should" have. Clients are who they are.

As to yoru clients who seem reluctant to be at ease with someone shooting on a DSLR, their concerns are valid. They are substandard video cameras.

 

[shashbugu]

I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying. "Relative Color Temp" meaning the differences between other sources. If I can see it with a pre-set, then I know whether it's acceptable or not. I should have been more specific, I'm talking about un controlled lighting situations for now. ENG, Doc, EFP situations (about 80 percent of production work) - not 35mm cine style shoots. It sounds like you've little experience with this or you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. In these types of situations, most clients want the footage end of the day, not in raw, but with a baked in look. Sorry, that's life. In these situations, quick preset access is indispensable

You have answered your own question. The Red is a digital cinema camera, it shoots 1.raw 2 .raw 3.raw 4.raw. 5 .raw. The camera was built as an alternative to celluloid film capture not necessarily as a regular ENG camera. There are hundreds of cameras that can do ENG better than the RED. Maybe in the future REd will make cameras to compete in that market, but for now it is what it is.

 

[Ned Wilson]

You have answered your own question. The Red is a digital cinema camera, it shoots 1.raw 2 .raw 3.raw 4.raw. 5 .raw. The camera was built as an alternative to celluloid film capture not necessarily as a regular ENG camera. There are hundreds of cameras that can do ENG better than the RED. Maybe in the future REd will make cameras to compete in that market, but for now it is what it is.

Actually there aren't hundreds of doc style cameras that have a 35mm imager. The small form of Epic makes it perfect for non-cine style production and numerous soon to be Epic owners plan to do that. And from what I see on other threads, Red is definitely aiming at EFP users as well. Even in narrative situations, the ability to analyze your relative color temp quickly is quite useful. Shooting in Raw or "baked in" doesn't change the relationship between different color temps, no matter what you can do in post. So being able to switch between different preset metadata color temps, asa, etc is a handy tool. I think Gibby may get what I'm driving at. Anyone else who's worked doc or efp professionally understand the feature set I'm talking about or has used the Epic in this quick metadata change on the fly mode I'm suggesting? If so, please relate your 1st hand experience.

thanks.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

@ ned

I think I may see what you're driving at, and still find this a bit weird...

Actually, when all on my own under available/mixed lights, I prefer to shoot in B&W...
It's raw, I'll set the metadata quickly in post. Focus and luma-exposure decissions are more important... under available light.

I am NOT in any way into what Gibby does, though...

But a flat WB tells me more about levels recorded (and thus acceptable for a post tweak).

(Ducking my head out of a discussion I didn't plan to enter...)

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Please, direct me to an alternate forum that I can ask questions with out people getting personal or impugning my character. I've been in the business for 20 years and usually, amongst colleagues, information is readily shared and I go by the old adage, the dumbest question is the one you don't ask. I'm really fishing for info and not to inflame sensitive souls.

I wasn't attacking you personally. You've seem to have behaved and I'm ashamed over the responses. Understand that reduser is not only proffessionals but a community and since RED has once been the underdog there's a lot of love for them. So sometimes it heats up on this forum and when it does it generally gets out of hand. Don't feel personally attacked and don't give up. Stay cool lol

EDIT: PS I haven't read the thread thoroughly so Im not attacking anyone.

 

[Ned Wilson]

I wasn't attacking you personally. You've seem to have behaved and I'm ashamed over the responses. Understand that reduser is not only proffessionals but a community and since RED has once been the underdog there's a lot of love for them. So sometimes it heats up on this forum and when it does it generally gets out of hand. Don't feel personally attacked and don't give up. Stay cool lol

EDIT: PS I haven't read the thread thoroughly so Im not attacking anyone.

No worries. I wasn't actually referring to you but soliciting your advice as you seemed to notice how this thread had gone off the rails of being welcoming and constructive. I totally understand the passionate attachment RedUser community have to their cameras. They're great cameras and I too wait patiently for my Epic to arrive and up the level of my work. But in the meantime, as there are few who've actually used them on the field, I was hoping to get valuable inside information sans dramatic rhetoric. Despite the "flame outs", bit by bit, I'm cobbling together a better understanding of what lies ahead and how it compares to the competition. And I've faith that cooler heads will prevail and at some point will reveal some more objective analysis and A/B tests. In the meantime, despite the scolding temperament, some of the young bucks here, have steered me to some juicy info, especially the HDR thread.

 

[Deanan]

I have a vested interest in the Epic being the best thing since the wheel. I'm a stage 2 guy.

We try to know as many of our customers by name (getting hard these days) but haven't come across yours yet. Did you get a RED One recently?

 

[Ned Wilson]

We try to know as many of our customers by name (getting hard these days) but haven't come across yours yet. Did you get a RED One recently?

It's through the company that I'm partnered (which the partners rather not have disclosed).