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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

alexa v mx

Robert Frank said:
Maybe not for long? Have you seen this thread? -> Lupe and this video? -> Lupe on Youtube

So are people now going to UP-REZ Alexa footage for 4K delivery?
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I read that before I posted. Know many people with home 4K projection? And how long will it take before 4K home penetration hits viable figures. I think wait a little while longer before watching 4K on a computer screen is bettered. And I imagine by the time 4K home viewing is possible Arri with have something else other than Alexa. Red too.
 
J. P. Sendall said:
I read that before I posted. Know many people with home 4K projection? And how long will it take before 4K home penetration hits viable figures. I think wait a little while longer before watching 4K on a computer screen is bettered. And I imagine by the time 4K home viewing is possible Arri with have something else other than Alexa. Red too.
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it may be some time but you tube will help push the technology to more affordable prices very quickly


so do you want what you shoot today to be compatible with tomorrows standards?
:thumbsup:
 
Tim Morten said:
I still question why I would pay more though... Red looks great at 2k, and has so many other advantages.

The slots that Alexa seems to fill are:
1. I love the Arri brand so much that I'm willing to pay a 4x premium
2. I have to have ProRes and I'm so impatient that I'm willing to pay a 4x premium
3. I believe Arri's marketing so much that I'm willing to pay a 4x premium

If there's some qualitative difference that Arri demonstrates where their images look clearly better than Red, that's another story. We'll see when cameras are widely available... meanwhile, I remain (highly) skeptical.

- Tim
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That's why I said Alexa sells because of "marketing, pro perception or anything else". I find it amusing that even when somebody posts in a way that seems to favour Alexa (even when the post obviously doesn't) people jump on you. The images seem to produce something quite pleasing (I've only seen one instance but compressed) but will hold judgement until I see either a film out or a 2K/4K projection as you all should, but for TV at the mo
it can deliver regardless of cost as some people have pointed out.
 
chrislancaster said:
it may be some time but you tube will help push the technology to more affordable prices very quickly


so do you want what you shoot today to be compatible with tomorrows standards?
:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

It's a time scale thing I guess. If I shot a tv drama today would I care much about 4K in the future. Probably not. Reruns of low quality series from yesteryear occur frequently without people complaining, in fact that becomes part of the pleasure. I watch films from Hollywood shot in black and white in what could be called quite low resolution but boy do I admire the artistry involved in those movies. Will Alexa shot material be enjoyed in the future? Yes, I think it will but probably only because you the cinematographer did something special.
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
Yeah sure..i want to shoot 50K
tomorrows standarts :thumbsup:
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you are so negative ... why do you post so much bullshit negativity ...get a life, man.


If you dont believe in what RED is doing just go away.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
David Battistella said:
The prores module is nice and all, but that will be equalled then it will come down to the what is easiest and cheapest. So will it be worth it to shoot prores on an 80K camera? Is that really what it is built for?

David
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This is so true David.

And it was something what worried me at the presentation.

The pro-res is meant to be an instant off line file - but I bet it won't always be used that way. Some producers will want the inexpensive convenience of using these as their final images. Good to have the option I guess - but as dangerous to DP's as the 1080 out of the RED camera in my mind.
 
David Battistella said:
The prores module is nice and all, but that will be equalled then it will come down to the what is easiest and cheapest. So will it be worth it to shoot prores on an 80K camera? Is that really what it is built for?

David
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Sony's F900R ist using HDCAM, a much, much more compressed format than ProRes. This camera is not cheap either. And very successful, especially for TV work.

IMHO, ProRes is much better than many think. ProRes is a great codec for normal projects that do not require heavy green screen work. ProRes off 4K R3Ds is much better than uncompressed off S16mm negative. S16mm is what Alexa will substitute mostly, I guess - at least here in Europe.

If Red would sell a ProRes module for Epic I'll be the first one who would buy it. Once in a while I shoot docs and for that ProRes is great.

BTW, I bet that over 50% of all Red originated projects are posted in a compressed format such as ProRes anyway.

Hans
 
If Alexa option with SxS card module ProRes 422 plus EVF would cost about $17.000 I would buy it for sure.

Just let you know that the rig that can have Canon 7D, Canon 5DMK2 or Panasonic GH13 (Hacked version) with HDMI out to AJA KiPro 422 ProRes Recorder costs between $6.000-$7.000.
 
Dylan Macleod said:
This is so true David.

And it was something what worried me at the presentation.

The pro-res is meant to be an instant off line file - but I bet it won't always be used that way. Some producers will want the inexpensive convenience of using these as their final images. Good to have the option I guess - but as dangerous to DP's as the 1080 out of the RED camera in my mind.
Click to expand...

This is why I want to see a 4444 Prores file. It's 12 bit, which with a good LUT applied (log c) should result in a very stretchable image in post, albeit pretty much capped at 1920x1080 (it's my understanding the 2K mode only kicks in for uncompressed file based workflows). I think (a prores module) would extend the (already many) ways we could use an EPIC camera and the number of situations the EPIC could rule out the use of another machine.

I think I used the term swiss army knife a few times and I like the idea of EPIC being modular in it's uses as well.

For example, you dial the camera down to the client needs but you always use the same tool. To me that is truely brilliant.

And EPIC will be:

A very good stills camera.
Possibly the best motion camera.
A very competitive high speed camera.
A live situation camera (1080Psf or 59.94 out)
A tethered camera (if you love that HDCAM SR look and workflow)
A mobile lightweight documentary camera
Widely integrated with existing glass from NIKON, PL, ARRI, ZEISS, CANON, etc
A 5K RECODE RAW recording camera.

That is a lot of situations and for the money much, much, much more bang for your buck.

Compromises. What? people are going to complain about a wavelett based compression scheme?

This is a dream camera, especially for an owner operator.

A rental house might prefer the investment in a ALEXA because it will be a speicailized, mostly one note cinema tool. But I have to admit, they know exactly who they are aiming it at.

David
 
the 1080p cap for pro res might be due to recording speed of SxS cards, it looks like there is room to change out the module in the feature. With the new Sony HDCAM solid stay media coming out, with 1 tb capacities, and great read and write speeds they may be able to push for a 2k recording option in pro res. Still won't win in the resolution war, RED has the market on that. :)
 
I may have misunderstood but didn't Jim say that after the Epic is released and they get everything dialed in they will release an SDK for third parties to make modules. If this is the case I can guess that it'd only be a matter of time before a Prores module is offered for Epic because if Red doesn't offer one, I'm sure a third party would.
 
Brian Petrie said:
I may have misunderstood but didn't Jim say that after the Epic is released and they get everything dialed in they will release an SDK for third parties to make modules. If this is the case I can guess that it'd only be a matter of time before a Prores module is offered for Epic because if Red doesn't offer one, I'm sure a third party would.
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Sure. But if you think it is going to take less time with an external developer, I think you may be in for a surprise...
 
Brian Petrie said:
I may have misunderstood but didn't Jim say that after the Epic is released and they get everything dialed in they will release an SDK for third parties to make modules. If this is the case I can guess that it'd only be a matter of time before a Prores module is offered for Epic because if Red doesn't offer one, I'm sure a third party would.
Click to expand...


Pro res requires a license agreement with Apple just as DNXHD would have to be licensed as well.

David
 
Pro res requires a license agreement with Apple just as DNXHD would have to be licensed as well.

Sure. But if you think it is going to take less time with an external developer, I think you may be in for a surprise...
Click to expand...

David
Click to expand...
Yeah, so do you guys think it won't happen? I'm not saying it would be available right out of the gate(possibly a 1 year + after Epic is released) or be cheap and easy to create. Just thought that with time if it shows that this proves to Alexa's main advantage or others show a strong need for Prores that either Red or a third party would eventually develop one.
 
Sorry to quote that wrong.
Gunleik said the first quote:
Sure. But if you think it is going to take less time with an external developer, I think you may be in for a surprise...
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and David that latter.
 
It's likely because they already have an established relationship because of the announced H.264 module. There has to be a license agreement for that.

David
 
I saw the Alexa presentation here in Japan recently. I thought it was a decent camera to bring Arri up to the level of the Mysterium sensor Red One.

That evening I shot my first test with my new Mysterium-X Red One. After processing the resulting footage (which you can see here) my first thought was "Alexa who?"

Arri made a big deal of their "Shoot > Edit" slogan but really, that's my workflow too, today, using 4.5K Red M-X files ONLINE in Adobe CS5. Theirs was all about 1080p ProRes.... just not the same ballpark anymore. The goalposts have moved.

Epic is going to seriously blow the doors off the Arri wagon, of that I'm certain.

AlexaIMG_0010s.jpg


AlexaIMG_0014s.jpg


AlexaIMG_0005s.jpg


(Yes, I asked for the Alexa mug in red of course!)

Cheers,

Paul
 
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