Alexa + RED One on J-Lo shoot

[Aria Khosravi]

Been following RED since '07, but never made any posts. Figured I'd do that today. Anyway...

Not sure if this is the right forum to post this in, but I just saw the BTS for the new Jennifer Lopez and Pitbull video, "On the Floor" (directed by Taj Stansberry), and I noticed that they were using both Alexa and RED One together! Any thoughts? Can you guys see a difference? I don't see a whole lot. It seems like the Alexa handles tungsten better and has slightly more latitude on the dancefloor shots, but I can't say the same about the solo performance shots on Alexa. This suggests that the overexposure and color on the RED shots could be attributed mostly to user error. Honestly, I haven't been too impressed with the music videos I've seen shot on Alexa lately.

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4H_Zoh7G5A&feature=fvwrel

BTS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANDAFLTn7ds

 

[Jake Bastian]

I'm confused... are you judging this based on the cut and graded video? or were you on the shoot? The BTS makes no reference of what camera was used where unless I'm missing something.

 

[Peter Matthes]

Picture 1 ... Red One

Picture 2 ... Arri Alexa

Both are screen captures from the BTS video.

 

[Jake Bastian]

Picture 1 ... Red One

Picture 2 ... Arri Alexa

Both are screen captures from the BTS video.

Thanks but I wasn't disputing whether RED and ALEXA were being used, I was referring to this:

Can you guys see a difference? I don't see a whole lot. It seems like the Alexa handles tungsten better and has slightly more latitude on the dancefloor shots, but I can't say the same about the solo performance shots on Alexa. This suggests that the overexposure and color on the RED shots could be attributed mostly to user error. Honestly, I haven't been too impressed with the music videos I've seen shot on Alexa lately.
[/URL]

 

[ChrisLyon]

Yeah, this is pretty heavy grading. From the BTS and slate info it looks like Alexa was "A" cam and RED was "B" cam, and possibly "C" cam. But with the grade and compression I'm not sure how you could tell. It's also likely that the grade (or at least one of the grades) was done with broadcast safe colors in mind- meaning lower DR. There's no way to tell what's better- even if you can tell what shots were Alexa or RED.

 

[Shane Betts]

One of the major sources of confusion over Red footage, Aria, is that so many judgements are made comparing video taps of the various cameras. Looking at a monitor out on any video camera (or, in Alexa's case, a digital camera recording to a video codec) in comparison to that of the Red One will pretty much always show less DR in the Red. The difference is that, as Red captures to RAW files, the power to grade in post is off the scale compared to any video codec. ANY.

The whole thing is compounded by the compartmentalisation of the film industry. Camera crews are (mostly) experienced and focussed on what they get out of the camera on set. What happens in post is SEP (Somebody Else's Problem). But that's exactly where the Red shines - in post.

Don't get me wrong. The pictures from the Alexa are lovely. But comparing onset monitors is only half the story.

 

[Timothy Eaton]

Good questions Aria, but I'm afraid there is just TLI - too little information, so any kind of quantitative evaluation and/or comparison is impossible. Which camera captured which shots? What was the range of reflected light in stops or footcandles in the frame? What was the color temperature of the incident lighting? How was each camera exposed? ISO? Shutter speed? Aperture? Color temperature? How was the material graded, and what equipment was used? What was the intent of the grading? And without knowing which shots are which, even qualitative comparisons are impossible. This is why controlled camera tests are essential to speak knowledgeable about DR, latitude, color rendition, etc. for any camera. In the end, the information gained from these tests is combined with real world impressions as a cinematographer uses a camera over time in different situations. Too often, too many characteristics are falsely attributed to a digital camera, lens, or film stock based on subjective impressions. When Eastman released the first high speed color negative stocks there were rumors that you could rate them at ISO 2000. A lot of DPs paid for believing that rumor when their footage ended up looking like oatmeal.

If you want to learn exactly what a camera's characteristics are, shoot some controlled tests for DR, ISO, color rendition, etc., and then shoot with it in a variety of lighting environments.

Tim Eaton / D.P.

 

[shashbugu]

Why don't you call the director of the video or production company and ask why they used two different cameras? I mean the question is like asking what the benefits are of using two different formats on a particular shoot. Have you stopped to think that maybe the director wanted to test both cameras in real production situations for future use and he got J Lo to pay for his personal real world shootout. THe video looks very good regardless of which camera was used. Plus like Shane said the picture quality of any given footage from a particular depends on who the cinematographer and crew are.

 

[Thomas Wright]

I've used the two on a shoot and we managed to intercut without being able to tell the difference. I should add for clarity that was only a viral for the web so any comperssion artifact would've been hard to see.

 

[Ryan Lalonde]

If I had to guess, it would be because the steadicam guy also owned the a red so he offered it as a package deal, and knowing it would be finished at max 1080p the two formats wouldn't be such a huge issue.

 

[Cail Young]

We recently finished a TV comedy series using Alexa on A and Red MX on B. Intercutting not an issue.

WINNING.

 

[Aria Khosravi]

We recently finished a TV comedy series using Alexa on A and Red MX on B. Intercutting not an issue.

That's more what I was trying to get at when I posted this. I didn't mean to tear either camera to pieces, nor was I using this as a comparison or an accurate analysis of either camera's footage. I was more just impressed that RED and Alexa could be intercut without any noticeable difference. And I know I also said I wasn't impressed with the shot-on-Alexa videos that have been coming out... This was more referring to some of the heavy grading that people are throwing onto their Alexa footage (Big Sean's "My Last" featuring Chris Brown, for example) which I feel often times is actually taking away from what the cinematographer captured on set. But again, these just my opinions. I guess I can do it differently when I'm the one who's shooting the video. I usually tend to over-criticize all the folks who own such revolutionary cameras because I'm stuck here with my 5D and 7D rig waiting for EPIC-S to change my life again

I love RED and Arri is a company with countless years of innovation to their name. The last thing I want to do is complain about their hard work. I rarely post on forums and forget how unclear things can get when quickly typed out :frown5:...
I appreciate everyone's input, though.