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ALEXA MINI vs GEMINI

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Rich Miro

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I want to see a comparison between the two cameras... no one has adequately done it yet. It's driving me crazy. I want to see it. NOBODY has done it. some have done low light comparisons, but i want to see full color/highlight comparison etc... just 1v1. Anyone up for the challenge?

i can't make the plunge from my epic-w without seeing this comparison.
 
Rent some cameras and do it yourself.
 
Rich Miro said:
I want to see a comparison between the two cameras... no one has adequately done it yet. It's driving me crazy. I want to see it. NOBODY has done it. some have done low light comparisons, but i want to see full color/highlight comparison etc... just 1v1. Anyone up for the challenge?

i can't make the plunge from my epic-w without seeing this comparison.
Click to expand...

Why would you make the plunge? buy youself a speedmount and still have the benefit of atleast 7k and almost a stop extra light.

Both Alexa Mini and the Gemeni can't deliver real 4k-DCI RGB, they don't have enough bayer pixels.
 
andrewhake said:
Rent some cameras and do it yourself.
Click to expand...

sounds like a waste of money when there is definately some peeps out there with both cameras or access. I only have access to the mini not a gemini currently. I'm not looking at low light. i know Gemini wins with that respect, but it would be cool to see side by side highlight/ color rendition straight out of cam.
 
Here’s the 3 biggest differences between Arri and everything else.
1) color hue holds through the range in over and under exposure, other cams shift hue, this matters and is why the color the separation is so obvious when you start playing with Arri footage in post vs the rest
2) the way middle grey is mapped
3) the over exposure latitude is phenomenal, it’s like it never blows out in log unless you really make it

I’ve never used gemeni. But I know red very well. Gemeni would be the lowlight winner I’m sure though, at least straight out of camera.
 
GEMINI is a different type of beast...I wouldn't be so quick to write off the Mini as the winner ;)
 
Numbers only tell part of the story. It’s like comparing a Tesla to a Porsche. You really have to get your hands on them and do your own tests. I’m sure you can borrow one from someone.
 
I have it on good authority that color on Gemini is tied for best in show with another camera and the arri's came in third.

Nick
 
Gemeni definitely has a magenta thing going on vs helium which is fighting a green thing in the darks, that much is very obvious even from just random footage

And I’m a red lover guys just FYI, not trying to start a war here, but it’s true about the hue shifts in over/under with other sensors

But again, I’ve never had gemeni footage myself, very curious if this holds true with this sensor too
 
One reason no one has done a test is that it is very hard and complex to do an "accurate" camera comparison. Comparative tests are difficult and even with something as simple as a dynamic range test the result can be different if you alter a single parameter. Just change the colour temperature of the light source or even the subject matter itself and the result can change. Different workflows and post processing also muddy the waters. I would consider both cameras to be excellent performers with each camera just nudging ahead in different areas but on balance quite similar. I think the questions you need to ask is whether your commercial clients have any preferences? Does the type of work you do play to the strength of the camera?
You seriously need to consider your ROI and your future camera direction. Personally I would be happy to own an Arri camera but in recent years I stayed with Red and went Monstro as the Full frame gives me a point of difference. As important is the mature age of the Arri Chip which was released back in 2010. While it is still a first class sensor you can be sure Arri will be replacing it in the next few years and I doubt the Mini will be upgradable. I suspect that the value and demand for the Mini will plummet with the arrival of the next generation Arri sensors. If considering a Mini I would go second hand if you can get a good price.
 
I want to say that Jake has a point about color shift in under/over and correct exposure. I believe Monstro is on a par with Alexa vis a vis this but I will also say that I dealt with this issue with 35mm film forever. If you shot a scene and had good exposure and then for a couple of shots under exposed you had color shift in facial tones that was very hard to correct in timing.

Also I have wanted to do an Alexa and Monstro test for a long time. Keslow will give me both cameras and lenses and AKS but I need to ask my post colorist brothers and sisters to help in the DI of the test. Maybe I can pull this off early in 2019
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
I want to say that Jake has a point about color shift in under/over and correct exposure. I believe Monstro is on a par with Alexa vis a vis this but I will also say that I dealt with this issue with 35mm film forever. If you shot a scene and had good exposure and then for a couple of shots under exposed you had color shift in facial tones that was very hard to correct in timing.

Also I have wanted to do an Alexa and Monstro test for a long time. Keslow will give me both cameras and lenses and AKS but I need to ask my post colorist brothers and sisters to help in the DI of the test. Maybe I can pull this off early in 2019
Click to expand...

Can’t wait for that Peter! Would love to see the regular alexa and the LF vs Monstro!
 
Rich Miro said:
I want to see a comparison between the two cameras... no one has adequately done it yet. It's driving me crazy. I want to see it. NOBODY has done it. some have done low light comparisons, but i want to see full color/highlight comparison etc... just 1v1. Anyone up for the challenge?

i can't make the plunge from my epic-w without seeing this comparison.
Click to expand...

They are very close with highlight performance in terms of DR at Gemini's normal gain and Gemini wipes the floor with Mini in low light.
 
Rich Miro said:
I want to see a comparison between the two cameras... no one has adequately done it yet. It's driving me crazy. I want to see it. NOBODY has done it. some have done low light comparisons, but i want to see full color/highlight comparison etc... just 1v1. Anyone up for the challenge?

i can't make the plunge from my epic-w without seeing this comparison.
Click to expand...

the question is why do you want to see this comparison?
What do you need to compare with Alexa? Do your customers want Alexa's look?
If so, you have to buy ALexa.
If you are trying to have the same color rendering is impossible, the colors will always be different in different light situations.
Or do you need to know who is better in DR and noise?
 
Jake Wilganowski said:
Here’s the 3 biggest differences between Arri and everything else.
1) color hue holds through the range in over and under exposure, other cams shift hue, this matters and is why the color the separation is so obvious when you start playing with Arri footage in post vs the rest
2) the way middle grey is mapped
3) the over exposure latitude is phenomenal, it’s like it never blows out in log unless you really make it

I’ve never used gemeni. But I know red very well. Gemeni would be the lowlight winner I’m sure though, at least straight out of camera.
Click to expand...

Points 1 and 3, for sure.
The elephant in the room is that when you are on a major production and something happens (shit always happens), these two points are butt saving. DoP's might never say it, but where big bucks are involved and blame gets kicked up faster than a sandstorm in the sahara, they are definitely concerned with saving their butt if required. Combine this with simplicity of operation and rock solid dependability...well that kind of explains a lot.

I am sure the Gemini is a good camera, but somehow I just don't see it on major prods, given the choice.
The other point to take into consideration is the Arri gamme really holds its value for a long time. Much more so than RED's. Which is not a comment on the image quality of their current crop of cameras, but just a reality from past experience. Personally I doubt the mini would drop that dramatically in value with a sensor update as someone here suggested. It is by far the most popular camera they have ever produced, selling on a scale of 10 to 1 compared to past iterations.

The Gemini is probably a good seller. It's a strong camera for commercial work and has a lot going for it, including low light, however, I see it more as an owner operator camera rather than a cinema rental item.
 
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I totally agree with C Burkhart.

Also, I think it's easy to forget that you're just making an investment decision. If a particular camera doesn't work for a particular situation, you can rent, or swap loans, or sell and buy again. Whatever camera you own will be what you become most comfortable on, but if you're in a situation where it's the wrong tool, just rent or borrow the right tool. No matter what you choose, you probably don't know what the best fit will be for the next year of projects you'll be doing. If your guess is really wrong, either camera would be a welcome subrent at most camera rental shops.
 
Having worked with both cameras recently, the differences between the two are trivial. Until you get to low light, then the Gemini is hands down winner.

Nick
 
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