Alexa Classic/Studio

[Leroy Jackson]

Why is the price of the Epic/Epic Dragon dropping in price sooooooo much faster than the
Alexa? I do know tech changes etc BUT The alexa classic is old as dire just like the Epic.
The Dragon is less then 2 years old though. Theres a FULL epic Dragon package for 20K or best
offer smh. Is the Epic Dragon that bad?

 

[Bob Gundu]

Why is the price of the Epic/Epic Dragon dropping in price sooooooo much faster than the
Alexa? I do know tech changes etc BUT The alexa classic is old as dire just like the Epic.
The Dragon is less then 2 years old though. Theres a FULL epic Dragon package for 20K or best
offer smh. Is the Epic Dragon that bad?

It's more like Weapon is making it's way.

 

[Filip Orlandic]

Most of RED cameras are being sold due to low rentability.
No more deep pockets like it was in the early RED ONE days.
Alexa changed it all.

 

[Demetri Zuev]

Most of RED cameras are being sold due to low rentability.
No more deep pockets like it was in the early RED ONE days.
Alexa changed it all.

And Mini just adds more to the situation. People are going crazy about it, everyone wants the Mini now.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

to be honest.. most of my jobs are Alexa.. have been forever..
there are way more Red cameras out there in the hands of owner operators than there are alexa's
and the rentability of alexa keeps its price up.. I have seen the classics going for 20-35k.. however I wouldnt buy one to rent..
in fact.. I wont buy anything anymore to rent.. the market is saturated.. almost all new digital cinema cameras can produce amazing results.

Id say 2-3 years you will see epics and scarlets on ebay for 3-5k
im sure alexa classics will be in the 9-15 range

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Why is the price of the Epic/Epic Dragon dropping in price sooooooo much faster than the
Alexa? I do know tech changes etc BUT The alexa classic is old as dire just like the Epic.
The Dragon is less then 2 years old though. Theres a FULL epic Dragon package for 20K or best
offer smh. Is the Epic Dragon that bad?

If they sell new Alexa 4Ks for the same price as the old Alexa it will probably drop in price, but also, the Alexa doesn't have a new sensor, it's the same sensor and you get the same result (with more resolution) with the new cameras. They aren't that much different really. The Weapon body and operation is a lot more than "just being the same sensor". It's operation and QT proxies will have a huge impact on workflows and feature films/series.

 

[David Peterson]

Simple, because the Arri Alexa is still is in greater demand and has a waaaay more prestigious brand name.

However... if you have lots of patience and have a keen eye, you can still find some great bargains on an old Arri Alexa.

Id say 2-3 years you will see epics and scarlets on ebay for 3-5k
im sure alexa classics will be in the 9-15 range

Dammnnn... I look forward to that day! :-D

I'll happily keep my Sony PMW-F3 (which I got for mere US$1.2K last year!) for fair while longer, then a couple of years from now grab an Epic MX kit (or Dragon?? ) for US$3K. ;-)

If I do any other upgrade sooner within the next year or so, I think it could be a 2ndhand Sony A7s (going under US$1k, and rapidly getting even cheaper) together with a PIX-E5 & PIX-LR (currently US$1.4K for the PIX-E5, hopefully will see a sale for both PIX-E5 & PIX-LR one day in 2016 for the same price? Or find it cheap on the 2ndhand market as well), it would make for an *AMAZING* B cam to my current Sony PMW-F3! :-D

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I also do wonder why...?

- Because of the upgrade/trade-in price of the Epic-D 15000$ ?
- Because people paid to much for an Arri camera they don't want to sell it for what it's really worth?
- It has a blue logo? Some say blue is better.

 

[Bob Gundu]

I learned long ago to invest in myself and be the best with with you have. Someone who is proficient with their tools can make it sing whatever song you want. Whenever gear depreciates doesn't really effect me because I have appreciated by then too. That's how you stay ahead of the game. :smile:

 

[Brian Merlen]

fewer alexas sold, more demand in the second hand market plus limited supply.... plus XT wasn't that compelling an upgrade, plus its still "industry standard top sensor". lots of reasons why buying one isnt a bad idea, so last year i bought two...this year ill upgrade to 8k red and ill embrace both higher end market segments... and maybe SXT if i can swing the costs this year too, depends when its actually released

 

[Scot Yount]

I learned long ago to invest in myself and be the best with with you have. Someone who is proficient with their tools can make it sing whatever song you want. Whenever gear depreciates doesn't really effect me because I have appreciated by then too. That's how you stay ahead of the game. :smile:

+1...

 

[Marc Wielage]

I also do wonder why...? Because of the upgrade/trade-in price of the Epic-D 15000$? Because people paid to much for an Arri camera they don't want to sell it for what it's really worth? It has a blue logo? Some say blue is better.

As far as I know, the rental costs for Alexa have held pretty steady in the last couple of years here in LA. Have you shot with an Alexa and tried it out, Patrick? I find the camera itself doesn't matter and is really only a minor portion of the cost of entry. It's the lens package, support gear, grip truck, and lighting that cost by far the most money. Even if the camera is $1000/day, everything else is $3000+ a day from where I sit. The choice of camera is almost meaningless. But I see less pushback from producers when Alexa is what the DP requests -- at least in LA.

Me personally, I try to stay camera agnostic and I'm perfectly to color-correct anything the client wants to shoot on. The only thing I balk at are 8-bit images from cheap cameras. If the dynamic range is good, the color is reasonable, the exposure is decent, the lenses are sharp, and the lighting is great, you can't go wrong. Alexa, Blackmagic, Canon, Red, Sony... the end results will be fine if the DP does their job.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Hello Marc,

I've never had to shoot Alexa and will stay away from it utill they give me something better than what they have to sell today. I was also disgusted by the arrogancy of some Arri/Sony/Aaton followers (the big rental houses, other DPs, and the companies themselves). RED gave us more than a camera, it's a system and a vision where cinematography isn't bound to names and money. Alexa was nerver good for any project I shot : to cumbersome, to heavy, HD prores for years, uncompressable RAW, 2k... There are too many downside to this tool. I'm thankfull I never had to choose it for production reasons. Believe me I never had to choose it for "picture quality" reasons ;-). The day RED recieves a technical achievement Oscar, I'll reconsider my thoughts about the arrogancy of this industry.

I love to be shooting a tool for the "masses" (wich RED is since day one). I've never invested in a camera up to the Magnesium announcement. I think the Weapon line is RED camera growned up. They have made a master piece underrated by the industry, let the industry believe in the Arri brand, but arri won't bring any change to this industry, perhaps because the Indunstry is afraid of change.

You are right by saying that lenses, exposure, light, ... are what makes an image great. Today my A camera is a RED Dragon camera, even if I had the opportunity to shoot a "top of the line" Arri camera.

Auguste and Louis Lumière bless the RED team.


Pat

 

[Malik Tigrine]

Auguste and Louis Lumière bless the RED team.

Really? :rolleyes5:

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Alexa has seen less depreciation as the upgrades have been minor and they all share the same impressive chip. A sensor so good that it's large physical size and weight, limited resolution, large power consumption and high cost are forgiven as it produces such sweet pictures. Arri will be releasing a new chip sooner rather than later and then watch older Alexa's values tumble.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Arri will be releasing a new chip sooner rather than later and then watch older Alexa's values tumble.

100% correct. Not just older Alexa's. Watch people dump AMIRA's for ARRI new sensor. It will be interesting to watch ARRI navigate their next phase with their next sensor.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Even if the camera is $1000/day, everything else is $3000+ a day from where I sit.

Just as an FYI - recently analyzed the last two years of rental data, across all segments that we support (episodic, features, fashion, commercials) - this is gross revenue - so yes, you see 64% is not the camera package:

Camera Packages (includes camera specific EVFs/LCDs/Modules) - 36%
Lenses - 16.5%
Batteries - 7%
Wireless Lens control - 7%
Filters - 6.5%
Wireless Video - 5%
Monitors - 3.5%
General accessories, support, "everything else" - 18.5%

 

[shashbugu]

Just as an FYI - recently analyzed the last two years of rental data, across all segments that we support (episodic, features, fashion, commercials) - this is gross revenue - so yes, you see 64% is not the camera package:

Camera Packages (includes camera specific EVFs/LCDs/Modules) - 36%
Lenses - 16.5%
Batteries - 7%
Wireless Lens control - 7%
Filters - 6.5%
Wireless Video - 5%
Monitors - 3.5%
General accessories, support, "everything else" - 18.5%

Yep this is spot on. Added to this is the power camera operators have to rent a production their own support kits.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Just as an FYI - recently analyzed the last two years of rental data, across all segments that we support (episodic, features, fashion, commercials) - this is gross revenue - so yes, you see 64% is not the camera package:

Camera Packages (includes camera specific EVFs/LCDs/Modules) - 36%

I'm just talking the camera body itself. Once you add video assist, viewfinder, external recorders, and all that, it goes way up. Look at it this way: I see many, many full lens kits that are $100K, particularly if it's something like renting a group of seven Master Primes @ $2K a day. That's a lot more than a Red Epic alone goes for.

I see the grip truck, lighting gear, generator, lenses, batteries, and mounts as fixed expenses that don't change that much for any camera out there. (Same deal for sound, DIT, props, makeup, and so on, all fairly constant.) The camera rental itself is different, but not massively different in terms of daily rental deals when you look at Alexa vs. Canon 500 vs. Red Epic vs. Sony F55.

 

[Demetri Zuev]

Arri will be releasing a new chip sooner rather than later and then watch older Alexa's values tumble.

I wonder if it's going to happen this NAB