Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

AJA card and Red

Thanks Lucas. I really appreciate you chiming in to help us figure out our potential workflow requirements.

Actually, I was referring more on the price of the Scratch software itself. From what I remember you saying at a workshop, the price is flexible on a case by case basis. But you bring up some great points that I hadn't considered.

I currently have a Mac Quad Core (8Gb ram) with a QuadroFX 4500. Unfortunately, not the SDI version which looks new to market. My requirements is to work at real time 2K (ideally 4k) using Redcode Raw. It sounds like this is possible with the newer Quadro, in which case, it would be my next investment.

If we plan on working Redcode Raw, our cost of entry goes down dramatically, isn't that right? I'm trying to figure out the cheapest real-time performance setup using currently owned hardware.
 
Fast but cheap Raid wise go eSata into a port multiplied card.

there are a few makes doin 10x drive sata raids capable of 300-450 Mbs, you could of course attach 2.. but I doubt you'll get 900Mbs..maybe 500>650Mbs still not enough for 4k.

Mind if your doing a 4K job I'd expect they are paying well ;)


I don't get why with an Nvidia 4500 sdi there is no rendering.. but if you have a normal non SDI 4500 and a Kona3 with SDI out then you cannot do realtime :-/

Besides doesn't Discreet Lustre use an OEM AJA card?
 
Yeah funny huh.

And Nope. Lustre uses the Quadro 4500 SDI too. I guess that's the card to get.

Oh and it looks like there's no Mac version of Scratch so I'm out of luck there. I can't even use my PPC Quad Mac for Redcine! Oh the pain.
 
flameop said:
...I don't get why with an Nvidia 4500 sdi there is no rendering.. but if you have a normal non SDI 4500 and a Kona3 with SDI out then you cannot do realtime :-/
Click to expand...

Because if you are a true native GPU application (like SCRATCH) then you don't have to go back out of the card in order to feed the video output. The NVidia 4500 feeds the SDI daughtercard with a proprietary connection that is outside the bus structure of the CPU, and as such suffers no lag or other processing time. But, you have to utilize the GPU fairly efficiently to do this.

If you have a non-SDI 4500 and a Kona3 card.... well... they don't speak the same language. There has to be some translation in order to get from the native NVidia card, back through the bus, then to the Kona card.

It's very analagous to langauge. When trying to communicate, think about the difference between speaking native to native (NVidia -> NVidia) as opposed to a translator in between (NVidia -> host bus -> AJA) One is realtime communication. One is not.

flameop said:
Besides doesn't Discreet Lustre use an OEM AJA card?
Click to expand...

Yes. And on Lustre - preview is realtime... because that goes through the 4500. But laying off to tape is not - it has to be rendered... because that goes through the "translation" process to get to AJA.

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
Los Angeles
 
Okay, stepping back from some of the highly technical discussion, I just gotta ask something basic here: is the AJA card something that is added to a system simply to get files from the Red camera into RedCine on my computer? So the AJA card grapples with the giant resolution images at the file transfer stage (into the computer) in a way that a really good PC just can't handle? I'm wondering if the AJA necessary because even a new quadcore PC will not be able to ingest 4K into RedCine, or maybe the AJA just allows the process to be handled faster. After the files are in the PC, my impression is the AJA is no longer needed (unless you're outputting to tape or something at a 2K or 4K resolution).

Thank you!
 
You don't need an AJA card, it won't be used to get RED images into your computer, and it won't processing things faster.

What it will do is, if you're working in HD, allow you to view your project on a proper HD monitor, and output to a proper HD deck.

Grame
 
Eh? I don't get you. Intensity is a capture / playback card. We're not talking about REDCINE here, but your NLE. If your NLE supports a Kona or Intensity, then it could be useful for HD playback to a monitor or HD deck.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
You don't need an AJA card, it won't be used to get RED images into your computer, and it won't processing things faster.

What it will do is, if you're working in HD, allow you to view your project on a proper HD monitor, and output to a proper HD deck.
Click to expand...

Can the camera do this as well? Can I copy a REDCODE RGB file created on a computer onto a REDDRIVE, hook the drive up to the camera, and play the footage out through HD-SDI? There doesn't seem to be any technical reason why this wouldn't work, and it would be handy. (Particularly on the road. I don't know about other people, but I find I have trouble fitting a Mac Pro tower into my luggage.)
 
Don't know about camera playback in that way. I wonder if Stuart can help?

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Eh? I don't get you. Intensity is a capture / playback card. We're not talking about REDCINE here, but your NLE. If your NLE supports a Kona or Intensity, then it could be useful for HD playback to a monitor or HD deck.

Graeme
Click to expand...

I no longer think in terms of HD decks but instead I think of using of Mac Hard Drives. If the port is hot then I'll want to record it to a Mac. I'm not trying to replace REDCine, but just make sure I have a separate copy - just like going to a HD deck, but it's not the cost of an HD deck.

I hope this makes sense even though it works around REDCine,

Rosco
 
The red cam is recording to hard drives or flash mermory, then you just have to plug those to your computer and copy them to your local drives (or raid system). There is no card needed.
Then you might want to render the images in redcine, with gamma and other color correction process on them, in both full 4k (or 2k if you are going for a 2k post) and HD proxi for editing. But that is only one way to go.

For me the AJA card is first for preview on a monitor (not only on your computer) through the SDI port. Then it will be needed to output to tape. But it has also engine that make possible real time effects, etc...
But using Premiere pro you can set to the resolution up to 4096 pixels, and render it out, without any card. So if you do not need to preview on a monitor, or output to tape (or even color correct in real time), then I think you can skip the AJA card (or any other brand). You could make a 4k project, import HD proxy, make your editing, and when finished, reconnect the clips to the 4k version, and render it out (or even find a better way).

My 2 cents,
antoine.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
You don't need an AJA card, it won't be used to get RED images into your computer, and it won't processing things faster.

What it will do is, if you're working in HD, allow you to view your project on a proper HD monitor, and output to a proper HD deck.

Grame
Click to expand...

Thanks Graeme. So succinct. Now I'm getting it.

If any folks are interested in what a few other pros are saying about HD monitors and HD post, check out the DV Expo panel discussion from DV.com here:

http://www.pqhp.com/nbm/dvx06/topic3.htm#

Given that I won't be using a pro HD monitor but some kind of LCD monitor or the Dell 2405 for my editing (probably editing AND finishing at 1080p with final product on HD DVD), I wonder if I'll need an AJA card at all; although, one monitor solution the DV Expo panel guys suggest is using an AJA converter between a computer and an LCD monitor.
 
Roxco said:
I no longer think in terms of HD decks but instead I think of using of Mac Hard Drives.
Click to expand...

Not sure I understood well, but for me there shouldn't be need for tape anymore. record on HDD, edit on HDD, output to HDD, then still scan to film, but backup original raw frames to HDD. But if you need to output to tape for TV, that's an other story. And I am sure, I didn't think to everything as well.
 
another question

another question

I sort of buried this question in one of my posts above, but I decided to ask it outright just to finally clarify the need for an AJA card (or not):

I won't be using a pro HD monitor but some kind of LCD monitor or the Dell 2405 for my editing (probably editing AND finishing at 1080p with final product on HD DVD) using Avid Media Composer. Will I need an AJA card/converter at all?
 
Sean - probably not. I'm assuming your NLE will drive the LCD as a second monitor on the graphics card?

Graeme
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top