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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

... Ah... I don't think I can buy Raven... thinking about canceling the order.

Gene Sung said:
Hey Minu, why not just keep the FS7 for events, docs, run/gun; and get a Scarlet-W for the higher end jobs?

That's a match made in heaven, which is what I'm doing.
Click to expand...

Great point. Why is it everyone has to treat their next camera like a new girlfriend? Just cause you get a new one, doesn't mean you have to get rid of the old one. I have GH4 and I can't see my Scarlet-w replacing a lot of the lower budget run & gun event stuff I do. Why should it? I'm getting the RED for exactly what you said: higher end jobs, narrative work, and to become experienced with a camera of that caliber as well as the RAW workflow.
 
Yep, I plan on keeping my C100 and adding the Raven to the arsenal.
 
I think yours is not a technical camera issue, but more a "political/power" one.
We get caught up in the what the camera can do or why things are difficult based on the tools we use. But your problem is not that, based on the 2 examples you provided.

Too many people nowadays are expecting to spend no money and get high level of quality. There is limit to what can be achieved, and that limit is ALWAYS dependent on the budget. Not the camera, not the lighting, not the ability of the DP or director. Just how much time or money they are willing to spend to achieve what they want.
If a director doesn't like natural light, but the production doesn't have the money to pay for lighting, then it simply can't be done if they want good quality. Your job should be to tell them that what they want cannot be achieved. You should not try to please them and do something that does not work well for you, or that doesn't have the quality you want.
Same thing for the youtube stuff. No lights, no high FPS.

In my experience saying "no" sometime is more beneficial. You are the ultimate responsible for what is done. And nobody will remember that lighting was not enough because they did not want to pay $. They will just remember you as the one shooting crappy footage. Said so, it is sometime difficult to do it. But it is your call.

The dragon is a great camera, but just a tool. So it will be the Raven. I used the A7S. Great in low light. Many other issues. Pick the one you need for the jobs you do, and ask production to give you what you need to do the job well. They haven't found the perfect camera yet, the one that solves set and production issues on its own...
 
I've got the Scarlet-W on order... not sure if I'm going to keep my FS7 or not. Like Gene said, there are definitely shoots I've been on that I love the setup (built-in ND, XLR, lots of easy to access switches and dials on the side)... but part of getting a Scarlet-W is to move myself away from that type of shooting. Luckily I don't do event stuff, but I do a fair amount of doc-style corporate gigs. I'm worried that if I keep the FS7 then clients will go "hmm... Scarlet-W or FS7... you think we might want extra lights and crew on the Scarlet? OK, never mind, we'll go with the FS7." If I am selling myself based on my current work/quality, I want to be able to tell them "This is what is required to work at the level you want." and leave it at that. And admittedly, that's something I've been trying to work on, educating clients and not just saying "uh yeah sure we can probably make that work."

And as for the low-light stuff (like the A7S), it's just not a good solution. It is crazy sensitive and I've been on shoots where we got some wild shots long after the sun went down. But what no one ever seems to talk or think about is that in those settings, at stupid high ISOs, TINY light sources look like gigantic lighthouse fog lights. It just doesn't look realistic or good. People also seem to have the impression that you need to "properly expose" all the time. Humbug, there are a LOT of times where it's acceptable to let the scene be dark. A live band on stage for a music video? If you've got a couple good edge/back lights, you can get a stylish dramatic shot that looks great, even if half of your histogram was hitting the left edge. You don't have to boost up every shot to middle grey.
 
Josh Becker said:
I've got the Scarlet-W on order... not sure if I'm going to keep my FS7 or not. Like Gene said, there are definitely shoots I've been on that I love the setup (built-in ND, XLR, lots of easy to access switches and dials on the side)... but part of getting a Scarlet-W is to move myself away from that type of shooting. Luckily I don't do event stuff, but I do a fair amount of doc-style corporate gigs. I'm worried that if I keep the FS7 then clients will go "hmm... Scarlet-W or FS7... you think we might want extra lights and crew on the Scarlet? OK, never mind, we'll go with the FS7." If I am selling myself based on my current work/quality, I want to be able to tell them "This is what is required to work at the level you want." and leave it at that. And admittedly, that's something I've been trying to work on, educating clients and not just saying "uh yeah sure we can probably make that work."

And as for the low-light stuff (like the A7S), it's just not a good solution. It is crazy sensitive and I've been on shoots where we got some wild shots long after the sun went down. But what no one ever seems to talk or think about is that in those settings, at stupid high ISOs, TINY light sources look like gigantic lighthouse fog lights. It just doesn't look realistic or good. People also seem to have the impression that you need to "properly expose" all the time. Humbug, there are a LOT of times where it's acceptable to let the scene be dark. A live band on stage for a music video? If you've got a couple good edge/back lights, you can get a stylish dramatic shot that looks great, even if half of your histogram was hitting the left edge. You don't have to boost up every shot to middle grey.
Click to expand...


Hey Josh :)

I have a deposit on the Raven but am thinking of selling up the FS7 kit and going for the Scarlet-W. As soon as I can have an inexpensive module that allows me to use my wireless lav I am in for it. Like you there is so much on the FS7 that makes it perfect for working quickly and the ND and audios are things I will be sad to be without again but saying that, sometimes you just want the best image...

I have an A7sII with audio module, plus a DJI Osmo for small little run and gun things where I need to be fast and mobile, plus a bag of screw-in firecrest NDs. Regardless of the A7s' party trick, I wouldn't ever use it past 6400iso, after which point as you say it goes mental.
 
I didn't read all 5 pages of this...

but...

What OLPF were you shooting with the Dragon?

Try STD OLPF (same as raven)

Then get back to us.

I mean - it's not going to be "super lit" like it would on a 2000asa sensor + speedbooster + Wide Open on the lens, but you might be able to get something decent. Or maybe not? I dunno.

I find myself rating things in dark places around 250 these days because I want my black blacker.
 
Just to be clear - you want a camera that shoots 4.5K raw, high speed, has amazing color science, and can shoot in the dark at 4000ISO and produce a beautiful image...for $6k...

Let me know where you are in the queue I'll have them send me yours
 
I'm considering the purpose of this topic.
 
Alessandro Lanzillotta said:
Just to be clear - you want a camera that shoots 4.5K raw, high speed, has amazing color science, and can shoot in the dark at 4000ISO and produce a beautiful image...for $6k...

Let me know where you are in the queue I'll have them send me yours
Click to expand...


I actually think that 4000 iso is not that much of a stretch with the raven, is it? I mean.... I remember scarlet dragon 4k crop being just fine @6400, so why not the raven???
 
If the OP is talking about music artists in the dark:
Dragon sensor, 500ASA, Angineux 30-76 Optimo Style @ T2.8

FKC1_zpsfnxleplf.jpg
 
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I've shot plenty of concerts on the MX sensor at 800ASA and it's looked fine. I'd be happy to post stills if needed, but I've known of plenty of concerts shot on MX and Dragon sensors at 800-1000 ISO and the footage has always been usable, usually with available light.
 
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