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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

After Effects and practical workflow with Redcode?

Philip Powell

Philip Powell

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Please forgive me if this topic has already been discussed to death. Did a search on AE and couldn't find tons.

If you shot a Green Screen shot, let's say, with Red and then wanted to pull the key in AE. You would want to work with the highest rez file possible. But since Redcode can't be "read" by AE as there are no codecs I'm aware of, the shot would have to be transcoded into another format that AE could read.

But the resulting file would most likely be HUGE at 4K, enough to bring most PCs (even decked out ones) to their knees. Are these accurate statements on my part? Currently is the only way to practically work with Red Files is to transcode them in a 2K format that AE can see and practically memory manage? Any plans for a Redcode QT codec? Thanks.
 
There IS a Redcode QT codec. Currently it only reads the files at proxy resolutions of 0.5k, 1k and 2k, but my understanding is that in the long run there will be a version of the QT codec that reads the file at 4k with a high quality de-bayer, so no intermediate format will be needed for 4k VFX work such as you describe.
 
We shot green screen this past weekend and I was pulling keys on set. In Red Alert just export an image sequence either in 4k or 2k... man... the edges were beautiful!!! I pulled a key in seconds with Keylight. It was slow working with the full rez 4k TIFF sequence on a laptop but it was also amazing what we got in such a short turn around.
 
Dumo said:
We shot green screen this past weekend and I was pulling keys on set. In Red Alert just export an image sequence either in 4k or 2k... man... the edges were beautiful!!! I pulled a key in seconds with Keylight. It was slow working with the full rez 4k TIFF sequence on a laptop but it was also amazing what we got in such a short turn around.
Click to expand...

If you don't mind me asking what kind of background noise levels were you getting when you tried to pull the keys? (with either the 2K or 4K files) How high or not did you have to crank the screen strength up to in Keylight? I am getting the Red primary for Green Screen work so this of great interest to me. Were you able to do any kind of a Ram Preview with the 4K files or was that just insane? Did you find you had to tweak the Red Alert settings that much? Thanks for abiding all my questions.
 
Noise levels? seriously, this was the best key I've ever been able to pull... the edges were so clean. It would have been even better had the green screen been lit more evenly... but even then it pulled really well.

As for RAM previews in 4k? um... not really, I probably was only able to preview a half second on the laptop. I'm sorry I don't have exact times and more info for you. It's hard to do proper testing while on set.

I tweaked the footage by upping the contrast and saturation so that I had an image that the client would like. A RAW image is very flat looking so I wanted to give them something they were used to seeing. Either way I'm sure it would have pulled fine.

Oh and info on the green screen? It wasn't a digi-green screen. It was a fabric green with tones of 'swirlies' in it from being in a bag. Still no problems.
 
Dumo said:
We shot green screen this past weekend and I was pulling keys on set. In Red Alert just export an image sequence either in 4k or 2k... man... the edges were beautiful!!! I pulled a key in seconds with Keylight. It was slow working with the full rez 4k TIFF sequence on a laptop but it was also amazing what we got in such a short turn around.
Click to expand...

Quick question. When you pull the TIFF sequence into AE, are you working in 32 float mode?
 
Nick Shaw said:
There IS a Redcode QT codec. Currently it only reads the files at proxy resolutions of 0.5k, 1k and 2k, but my understanding is that in the long run there will be a version of the QT codec that reads the file at 4k with a high quality de-bayer, so no intermediate format will be needed for 4k VFX work such as you describe.
Click to expand...

I can't wait for this. That codec is going to save so much time. Any idea when that might be available?
 
vanawesome said:
Quick question. When you pull the TIFF sequence into AE, are you working in 32 float mode?
Click to expand...

There's no point converting the RAW files into 32-bit float unless you do serious color treatment during the RAW conversion, including lowering the white point to get 'overbrights'.

As long as you don't clip highlights in the conversion you'd be fine working with 16-bit files coming out of REDCINE.

You can choose to do compositing in 32-bit float - although usually 16-bit is enough. It's unfortunate that there's no 16-bit float option in After Effects though.

Of course there are some benefits to working in 32-bit float, but in a production environment the render times may be prohibitive.

Barend
 
Barend Onneweer said:
There's no point converting the RAW files into 32-bit float unless you do serious color treatment during the RAW conversion, including lowering the white point to get 'overbrights'.

As long as you don't clip highlights in the conversion you'd be fine working with 16-bit files coming out of REDCINE.

You can choose to do compositing in 32-bit float - although usually 16-bit is enough. It's unfortunate that there's no 16-bit float option in After Effects though.

Of course there are some benefits to working in 32-bit float, but in a production environment the render times may be prohibitive.

Barend
Click to expand...


Interesting. 16 float would be nice. Looks like we're leaning towards adopting NUKE for our compositing needs anyway. Which works in float by default. Any word if red cine will have an openEXR output option? Is red cine even available yet? I need to get my hands on that asap.
 
vanawesome said:
Interesting. 16 float would be nice. Looks like we're leaning towards adopting NUKE for our compositing needs anyway. Which works in float by default. Any word if red cine will have an openEXR output option? Is red cine even available yet? I need to get my hands on that asap.
Click to expand...

Yes, openEXR is already available in Redcine. But no, I don't think Redcine is available yet.

I'm also leaning towards NUKE for compositing.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=94853#post94853
 
I'm also looking at Fusion 5.2, love that nodal work flow over layer based.
5.2 has a lot of bug fixes. I sat through an extensive product demo today.
 
ibloom said:
Hey Curran,

Why Nuke, what's the advantage?

IBloom
Click to expand...

I haven't actually used it yet but from the tutorials I've seen:

node-based
HDRI support
32-bit float
openEXR (64 channels)
3D import (OBJ, 3D camera)
plugins....
InPaint wire/scratch removal

I wish I knew what is going on with "Phenomenon". If Apple is working on something like this I would rather get it instead of Nuke. I haven't really looked at Fusion yet either.
 
Curran Giddens said:
I haven't actually used it yet but from the tutorials I've seen:

node-based
HDRI support
32-bit float
openEXR (64 channels)
3D import (OBJ, 3D camera)
plugins....
InPaint wire/scratch removal

I wish I knew what is going on with "Phenomenon". If Apple is working on something like this I would rather get it instead of Nuke. I haven't really looked at Fusion yet either.
Click to expand...

I remember hearing something that in the next release (coming soon, a few weeks or so) their openEXR will support even more channels. I forget the number I heard exactly but it was in the 1000's. And come december they are releasing the new UI with a set of stereo compositing tools that will make my life a whole lot easier.
 
Sir Pancake said:
Please forgive me if this topic has already been discussed to death. Did a search on AE and couldn't find tons.

If you shot a Green Screen shot, let's say, with Red and then wanted to pull the key in AE. You would want to work with the highest rez file possible. But since Redcode can't be "read" by AE as there are no codecs I'm aware of, the shot would have to be transcoded into another format that AE could read.

But the resulting file would most likely be HUGE at 4K, enough to bring most PCs (even decked out ones) to their knees. Are these accurate statements on my part? Currently is the only way to practically work with Red Files is to transcode them in a 2K format that AE can see and practically memory manage? Any plans for a Redcode QT codec? Thanks.
Click to expand...

As of right now you need to export your .r3d file from Red Alert to either a .tiff or .dpx sequence for maximum quality. The quicktime wrappers that are generated in camera or via Red Alert are not the maximum quality available from the .r3d files. The output from Red Alert to a .tiff or .dpx sequence varies in time depending on the resolution you have chosen, but it is not an instant process.
 
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