After a year of bitching about it, Ive moved to the dark side.

[MichaelP]

I remember when AVID "dropped" Mac support because apple wouldn't put more PCI slots in their quadra 950 to suite avid's needs. Then apple made finalcut pro. Now the new macpro (with some TB2 expansion chassis) is going to be a little ass kicker. They only kept what was necessary onboard and everything else can attach to something via thunderbolt or USB2.

Avid never dropped Mac support - show me any period of time where it was not available. The statement was misconstrued out of context at a time when Apple themselves where very near going out of business a few years prior and as an NLE, you need a platform in order to have a business. Also, Apple didn't make FCP, they bought it from Macromedia when it was Keygrip and ran on Mac and Win created by Randy Ubilos. They dropped the Win side and continued development as a rebranded FCP.

I am looking forward to seeing what the new MacPro can do, for the bell curve of the Pro market, it will do quite well. But keep in mind that it's really only 3 thunderbolt buses, each with a split to two for 6 connections. Not 6 separate buses.


Michael

 

[Paul Kalbach]

Ever since FCP7 was killed, I've been trying this and that; FCPX, Premier, Smoke, and Media Composer waiting in the wings. I found it frustrating at first to wrap my head around the new approach of FCPX and found myself going back to FCP7 for most of my work because it was what I knew best. But now I'm being "forced" into learning FCPX thoroughly because I've just been hired to teach FCPX at a local college. Now that I'm seriously studying FCPX in a structured disciplined manner, I am having those "aha" moments. It can only get better...

 

[MichaelP]

Every artist finds the tools that works for them. The constantly trying to make "one" the best for everything is a long ways away if ever in a constantly changing environment of cameras, codecs, distribution, combined with the editing which is a living language and is itself on constant change.

Michael

 

[David Battistella]

Avid never dropped Mac support - show me any period of time where it was not available. The statement was misconstrued out of context at a time when Apple themselves where very near going out of business a few years prior and as an NLE, you need a platform in order to have a business. Also, Apple didn't make FCP, they bought it from Macromedia when it was Keygrip and ran on Mac and Win created by Randy Ubilos. They dropped the Win side and continued development as a rebranded FCP.

I am looking forward to seeing what the new MacPro can do, for the bell curve of the Pro market, it will do quite well. But keep in mind that it's really only 3 thunderbolt buses, each with a split to two for 6 connections. Not 6 separate buses.


Michael

Your facts are more or less correct. My point was more that the wheel of shit, turns, continuously. A that time, it was all about windows 95 and the "future". But the wheel of shit, turns.

and it will continue to turn.

David

 

[MichaelP]

I agree the world of shit turns and turns. A far as the facts go, I worked directly for the guy to whom that quote was attributed to at the time, and I was in the press room at that NAB at the time and I know the context and the intent of the discussion. Once it gets out of context and out into the wild, it's anyone's game and everyone will believe what they want to believe based on where they're coming from and where they think they are going. At the end of the day, whether it's a company, a person, or otherwise, it's the body of work that speaks loudest.


Michael

 

[David Battistella]

Michael,

You are correct, I'm remembering it from the perspective of being a young editor and a lover of Mac products. Every NLE has a body of work associated to it now. I'm sure you are like most people who believe in what they do and really want the best. Perceptions and misconceptions are left to the ether and to memory, which is rarely accurate.

david

 

[Peter Moretti]

Avid never dropped Mac support - show me any period of time where it was not available. The statement was misconstrued out of context at a time when Apple themselves where very near going out of business a few years prior and as an NLE, you need a platform in order to have a business. Also, Apple didn't make FCP, they bought it from Macromedia when it was Keygrip and ran on Mac and Win created by Randy Ubilos. They dropped the Win side and continued development as a rebranded FCP.

I am looking forward to seeing what the new MacPro can do, for the bell curve of the Pro market, it will do quite well. But keep in mind that it's really only 3 thunderbolt buses, each with a split to two for 6 connections. Not 6 separate buses.


Michael

David, I don't believe this is entirely accurate either. FWIU, Apple was updating their OS at a breakneck pace and and in the process, constatnly breaking MC. Avid got pissed and decided not to support what was believed to be an interim version of Mac OS. This scared Apple b/c they did not want to feel beholden to Avid for sales of multimedia workstations so they bought what was to become FCP from Macromedia.

The distinction beign that Avid did indeed decide not to support a version of Mac OS. ... Assuming my version of the story is correct, LOL!

 

[David Battistella]

Yes Peter,

a lot of people were locked to their version of mac os by the AVID software, people could not update the OS of their "100k editing computer" running AVR 27, if they had purchased that option.

Man times have changed, for the better, I hope.


David.

 

[Scott Crawley]

It is true that I don't know how to fully exploit the EDL and that may well be why I haven't had much success with them and consequently don't use them.

I can appreciate that you do. I should take the time to become more familiar and become a better technician.

I was just being cheeky, really.

Everything has a purpose, even if its not one that you might personally need. EDL's are great for tasks like file consolidation, provided the dailies were handled properly. They also are the simplest way of troubleshooting "holes" in a timeline and figuring out whether they should or should not be there. They represent a simple, standard, human readable list of everything required to conform the show, and as such, are used alll the time - often through scripting - to do things like compile one directory containing links to all of the original files, regardless of where they might be scattered on a large SAN, thus avoiding very lengthy search time and possible resultant crashes by the conform software. They are also the one list format that is universally understood by essentially every piece of software in our industry - with the notable exception of Final Cut X, of course. If you look at EDL's as "sucking balls" simply because they don't represent multiple video tracks or complex effects, you're missing the bigger points of why we still have and use them.

 

[Mike Garrick]

The world of NLE's isn't the pathway to easy profits for developers anymore. Heck even Autodesk has been dropping prices !

Lets face it Avid is in deep $$$ trouble and they will never be able to again charge ridiculous prices for their software & expensive rack mount boxes. How long will they be around, I don't know, but somewhere, somehow something will give.

Having now used Premier for the last couple of years ..... its a NLE but not a great one. So given whats happening with their subscription model its just not worth it for a clunky NLE & a very ordinary toolset ( most probably because Adobe doesn't want to steal features from AE, which is the killer Abode App.)

So that leaves FCPX. IMO as insurance it most probably pays to learn it . Hence my post about online tutorials & thanks for advice from all . I just wish they hadn't totally created a new NLE language in the process, making it hard to convey tech ideas & concepts to people outside of the FCPX ecosystem

P.S. Edius sounds interesting but I'm Mac based so can't comment until they release a compatible version.

P.S.S LOL Cmx what the heck do you do with that nowadays ?

 

[Rob Castiglione]

"I am having those "aha" moments. It can only get better..."

That is what this thread has been all about. It is also interesting that the inspiration always follows the hard work!

It is true I suppose, as has been noted, that people should not limit themselves too much to a particular tool. However, I like really mastering the tools I work with or particular combinations of them - my Leica Rs with my Epic , Final Cut Pro X. I kind of keep Adobe PPro in reserve.

 

[Mike Garrick]

The sleeper I reckon is Resolve 10, a NLE no .........but maybe something else .....& maybe the way of the future.

& FCPX works well with Resolve..apparently?

 

[M Most]

David, I don't believe this is entirely accurate either. FWIU, Apple was updating their OS at a breakneck pace and and in the process, constatnly breaking MC. Avid got pissed and decided not to support what was believed to be an interim version of Mac OS. This scared Apple b/c they did not want to feel beholden to Avid for sales of multimedia workstations so they bought what was to become FCP from Macromedia.

The distinction beign that Avid did indeed decide not to support a version of Mac OS. ... Assuming my version of the story is correct, LOL!

Are you aware that the person you're arguing with (Michael P) was not only working for Avid all through that period, but is one of the principal architects of many of the things that are in Avid both then and now? Everything he is saying is fact, not guesses.

 

[M Most]

The world of NLE's isn't the pathway to easy profits for developers anymore. Heck even Autodesk has been dropping prices !

Lets face it Avid is in deep $$$ trouble and they will never be able to again charge ridiculous prices for their software & expensive rack mount boxes. How long will they be around, I don't know, but somewhere, somehow something will give.

It sounds like you believe that Avid's Media Composer and associated interfaces is their only product line. That is hardly the case. They also have all of the Digidesign and M-Audio products, which are relatively ubiquitous in post sound work, as well as the music industry, both professional and not. And they are one of the major suppliers of broadcast and broadcast news automation systems, products that go considerably beyond simple editing. Not to mention their considerable patent portfolio. While Media Composer is certainly important, and something of a flagship product, it is most definitely not the only thing they do, and although they are a focused company, they are not the one product entity that I think you're making them out to be.

 

[Mike Garrick]

@ Mike
I was talking NLE's. Pro Tools is the Gold standard in sound & Avid own it.

However all this doesn't change the corporate entity "Avid' is in financial trouble despite having Pro Tools & despite having the industry preferred NLE & broadcast systems. So what is going wrong ?

& Maybe thats why its a good idea to learn FCP X (groan)

 

[M Most]

@ Mike
I was talking NLE's. Pro Tools is the Gold standard in sound & Avid own it.

However all this doesn't change the corporate entity "Avid' is in financial trouble despite having Pro Tools & despite having the industry preferred NLE & broadcast systems. So what is going wrong ?

What's going wrong is the same thing as what's going wrong with a lot of things, and particularly in the motion picture and entertainment industry. It's a race to the bottom. You can't go on having companies trying to see who can be the first to get to "free" and still have those companies stay solvent and/or continue to develop and innovate. Ultimately there has to be fair return on investment. But that will require the public to stop demanding that everything be cheap or free, and it will require that the remaining players to stop trying to give it to them. And if you don't think this affects Red - a company that was partially founded on the notion of offering their products significantly cheaper than the competition - you haven't been noticing the Blackmagic camera products or their mention in this forum.

 

[Peter Moretti]

Are you aware that the person you're arguing with (Michael P) was not only working for Avid all through that period, but is one of the principal architects of many of the things that are in Avid both then and now? Everything he is saying is fact, not guesses.

Hi Mike, yes I am aware that Michael worked for Avid for many years, and I **WISH** he still did!!! I don't think he and I are having an argument, but I do think we are characterizing what happened differently. I'm truly not playing semantics here. Michael is of course correct that Avid never dropped Mac support. But what they did do, IIUC, is say they weren't going to support a new version of Mac OS, and that royally pissed off Apple and some of its more passionate users. And this event was the impetus for Apple buying a video editing program from Macromedia. I certainly could be wrong, as I have no first hand knowledge of how all this went down... I'd love to hear Michael elaborate.

 

[Solomon Walker]

Been using FCPX since Day 01; though I had to get the Ripple Training Course to understand what was going on with it. You need to get training to understand the program fully - then there is no going back.

My 2011 MacBook eats its way through footage with no problems.

Definitely the future, especially now that FCPX and Logic X integrate together (still a bit glitchy - but it looks promising).

 

[M Most]

B

Definitely the future, especially now that FCPX and Logic X integrate together (still a bit glitchy - but it looks promising).

That would be a lot more promising if Logic X were actually a capable post sound editor rather than the very music creation centric program that it is. If you're a composer, it's a nice combination. If you're a sound editor, you're still figuring out the best way to get the "tracks" into Pro Tools (X to Pro is a good start, but the entire path could be a lot better), and Logic X means very little.

 

[Scott Crawley]

That would be a lot more promising if Logic X were actually a capable post sound editor rather than the very music creation centric program that it is. If you're a composer, it's a nice combination. If you're a sound editor, you're still figuring out the best way to get the "tracks" into Pro Tools (X to Pro is a good start, but the entire path could be a lot better), and Logic X means very little.

It may mean little to you, but it means a lot to the FCP ecosystem. Consider the first version of Final Cut Studio in terms of ability and cost and remember what a stir it made. Today we have FCP X, Motion and now Logic for $600. The new FCP Studio, if I can call it that is many times more powerful at less than half of the cost. I think Logic X is a boon.

Logic may not be the defacto standard that Pro Tools is, and it does have deep sampling and midi tools but it is a capable recording, processing and mixing work station as well. in short it is a capable DAW, not just a composer's tool.

X2Pro costs $149 and Logic X costs $200. That is a lot of additional functionality for $50. As a translator or file conversion tool it is complete overkill, but I don't expect to hear any complaining about that.