Advise needed... What to do?

[Jamie_Guy]

Hello, we at the University of Colorado will be getting an Epic X in the next few months, Pumped!

We currently have a Macbook Retina 2.7, 16gb ram GT 650, 512 SSD, with a LACIE 6TB Raid 0 external drive.


We are looking into a 27" iMac fully loaded, and adding a 12TB Promise drive (will get the Promise no matter the choice).


The question i have is this. Would it be better to invest in a Rocket and Thunderbolt enclosure instead of the iMac? (funds will only allow us to get the old rocket at this time).


We are just looking to get the best performance and render times with the Epic footage for this year. Next year we will have no issue spending the funds on a new machine for editing.

We have plenty of network storage so that is not a problem for archiving. Editing on Adobe CS6 Suite.


Any advice or suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

 

[Louis Maddalena]

Since next year you'll have it in your budget to get more editing systems I'd say get an enclosure for the Red Rocket. You can have the professor or a TA render out proxies for students to edit with on that system. Then next year you can have a series of iMacs with thunderbolt and you can pass the RR around to which ever student wants to render out their project at full res if they are going to show it at a place where it requires that resolution, or if they want to keep it at that resolution for the future when they have a 4k TV at home.

In time you can pick up a Rocket X and enclosure and pass that one around the studio to the students and keep the old RR to go out on location with students so they can learn about on set media management, and even start integrating a DIT into their workflow.

 

[Jamie_Guy]

Thanks Louis. I should clarify a little bit. We work in the Athletic Department so we wont have a bunch of students editing or have to pass around the rocket, we do have student interns.

Our workflow during the Football season will basically be, Shoot game on Saturday, create an edit for viewing on thursday. We will use a mix of Epic, Canon DSLR, and BMCC 4k cam (if that ships) footage. Sometimes we will use footage from the TV truck Melt reel which will be in ProRes HQ.

Is there a recommended workflow? I was thinking that we will import all footage, assemble timeline, leaving the Epic Footage native in PP.

This is a lot to think about and consider.

Here is our Vimeo Page to see what kind of work we do if you are interested . http://vimeo.com/cuvideo

 

[Louis Maddalena]

I got it, I just assumed you with the Comm department.

I don't think my advice changes much though, I think I'd still get the thunderbolt enclosure, then next year grab an iMac (or new mac pro when they are released). And keep the RR where you need it. It will help you export your Epic a lot faster than a iMac ever could.

I'm at work now so I can't really elaborate, I only have time to write while I render, but I'll check back with this thread tonight if I have a spare moment.

 

[Jamie_Guy]

Thanks, look forward to more thoughts.

 

[Jamie_Guy]

Any other feedback from anyone? Thanks!

 

[david_winters]

I bought a 2008 Macpro 3.1 for $1200 off craigslist. Rocket installed in tower, which was the lowest cost scenario to export to prores 1080 in real time.

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

I'm going to disagree with the above. Not because they're wrong (they're certainly not) but because you mentioned you will have other camera types.

The problem with the Rocket is that it ONLY helps Red footage.

You may get better overall performance if you edit with Adobe Premiere (or similar. Even FCPX reads R3Ds natively now, and Avid has made huge strides. Lightworks is coming out this summer, and boasts R3D support as well) and have a souped up graphics card. The iMac won't break the bank, but it will give you more Cuda cores and GFX memory then your laptop.

Do note, either path offers distinct advantages and disadvantages, and requires a different workflow. Also do note that the Rocket will work with Premiere (or Lightworks, or a few other scenarios) so that you can play your footage *in higher resolution in real time* than without a Rocket. This is true whether you're on the laptop or the iMac.

But again, the Rocket will *only* benefit Red footage, and does absolutely nothing for any other kind of file. Personally, I tend to ere on the side of versatility per $, especially when I don't have the money to get more specific in terms of functionality. So, while neither option is what I would call "bad", personally, I'd go for the iMac before I went with the Rocket.

 

[Jamie_Guy]

Interesting Nick, I see your point. Say as an example out of a 3 min vid, 1 min of that footage was RED, perhaps 10-6 sec clips and the rest is a mix of dslr and other footage. when i render to 1080 24p about how much time should i expect out of a transcode? With a new fully loaded iMac or a MBP retina w/Rocket.

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

The exporting part is sort of irrelevant. You can hit export and then walk away.

It's more about the working time. If you can't scrub through footage, or can't hit play and watch footage, then you can't edit.

In the past, and I mean the way-back past, there was really only one option: transcode all footage to something that isn't R3D, and then edit with those proxies. The Red Rocket made it so that transcoding to those other formats took about 1/12th to 1/20th the time. As in, instead of waiting a day or two, you wait a few hours.

Now, some software utilizes the Red Rocket, so instead of transcoding to a format and storing that format, the Rocket aides in decompressing the file on the fly. The thing is, these same software products have made huge strides in placing tasks onto the GPU instead of doing everything through the CPU. Either way, in terms of workflow, you're now working directly with the R3D files, not proxies. This is better for organization, as well as makes conforming easier when finishing. Oh, and you don't eat up as much hard drive space.

If you have a Rocket and a shitty GPU, then you will be great at doing straight cuts with Red footage. Effects and any other kind of footage will not be accelerated, however, and will be rather limited.

If you have a great GPU and CPU, but no Rocket, then your computer will be a champ at tearing through most kinds of footage. Red footage will probably be limited to 1/2 or 1/4 res, but that's probably pretty great, when you consider that the section of your iMac screen that the viewing window takes up is probably smaller (in terms of pixels) than 1/4 or 4K.

Does that help give a little background and clarify? The most important take-away is that if you can't play your footage, you can't edit. If you're using Final Cut Pro 7, then you have to transcode to a non-R3D format before you edit, and a souped up GPU will be useless as well. For this workflow, it's a no-brainer: Red Rocket all the way. If you're using Adobe Premiere as part of CS6, then an NVidia GPU with CUDA cores will tear through most of what you throw at it. If it's me making that call, then I'd upgrade a computer/GPU before touching a Rocket.

 

[Jamie_Guy]

Thanks Nick, makes perfect sense.