Advice on Current Setup - FCP to AE, Color grade & Export Codec (Red R3D's)

[HD Hildebrand]

Hi there,

I’ve been out of the loop for a bit for I’ve been caught up in a lengthy production and due to the "here today, gone later today" nature of life & software development I thought I’d ask a few questions so I can hit the ground running and not run into a bunch of brick walls that have already been discussed and resolved. I have been reading through the forum, but sincerely would appreciate any advice to get me restarted with current solutions in case I missed some obvious pointers that have already been laid out. My platform is Mac. Okay, here it goes:

For a large project with a ton of footage, my work flow has been cut proxies in FCP, export XML, import XML into clipfinder, change proxies to R3D in clipfinder, export new XML with R3D settings, import XML into Premiere, fix things that did not conform in Premiere, Export and then re-import into AE. Is there a current (better) workflow when working with proxies in FCP and then wanting to master R3D’s in AE?

90% of the footage is R3d, but there are some timelapse shots that were done on DSLR’s so they were rendered to Prores to work in the FCP timeline in the above scenario. When exported as described above they created many problems in both Premiere and AE. As a result I have to manually remove them. Is that still a problem?

When in AE and grading are there any settings I should start with in order to take advantage of the new color science as well as FLUT?

What are the best settings to have in AE for grading R3D’s?

I’ve had a lot of problems and crashes with AE on larger R3D projects when rendering out. As a result I’ve had to break the project up into many small pieces. Is this still a problem?

As a result of rendering out the project in chunks I’ve had to re-import back into FCP to conform and color shifts have plagued me with this. What is the best output codec people can suggest. I wish to have both 4k and 2k output options.

Sincerely appreciate any help and pointers so I can hit the ground running.

Cheers,
Dale

 

[Kwan Khan]

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=609165#post609165

 

[HD Hildebrand]

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=609165#post609165

Interesting, however that is exactly the same as round tripping with CS4. My interest is getting to AE from FCP and proxies to R3D. Clipfinder has worked, just wondering about options. I'm going to try automatic duck Pro Import.

My main concern though, is color space in AE as well as codec export. I just imported an older project that went through AE CS4 into CS5. In AE CS5 that same footage that went through AE CS4 does not keep the color space that was established in CS4. Additionally, when I manually reset it back to the same color space through settings (in interpret footage) the color, gamma, exposure, brightness are way off. What's up with that?

Also, any tips on choosing the best codec for export from AE? Would like to avoid color shifts when going back to FCP. This will be broadcast, but I have just been asked to make a 35mm print, so want the highest rez, quality I can get.

 

[JoshBertrand]

You can use Automatic Duck, or if you google around you can find free scripts for AE that do most of what the Duck does. Search import FCP XML into After Effects. That's the way we do it so we can skip Premiere. Still need to go through Clipfinder to reconnect to R3D's though.

 

[David McGavran]

Interesting, however that is exactly the same as round tripping with CS4. My interest is getting to AE from FCP and proxies to R3D. Clipfinder has worked, just wondering about options. I'm going to try automatic duck Pro Import.

My main concern though, is color space in AE as well as codec export. I just imported an older project that went through AE CS4 into CS5. In AE CS5 that same footage that went through AE CS4 does not keep the color space that was established in CS4. Additionally, when I manually reset it back to the same color space through settings (in interpret footage) the color, gamma, exposure, brightness are way off. What's up with that?

Also, any tips on choosing the best codec for export from AE? Would like to avoid color shifts when going back to FCP. This will be broadcast, but I have just been asked to make a 35mm print, so want the highest rez, quality I can get.

I will look into this. It should maintain the CS4 color science version. however there is an older red sdk version that doesn't support updating from so it could be that...

Cheers

Dave

 

[David McGavran]

Hi there,

I’ve been out of the loop for a bit for I’ve been caught up in a lengthy production and due to the "here today, gone later today" nature of life & software development I thought I’d ask a few questions so I can hit the ground running and not run into a bunch of brick walls that have already been discussed and resolved. I have been reading through the forum, but sincerely would appreciate any advice to get me restarted with current solutions in case I missed some obvious pointers that have already been laid out. My platform is Mac. Okay, here it goes:

For a large project with a ton of footage, my work flow has been cut proxies in FCP, export XML, import XML into clipfinder, change proxies to R3D in clipfinder, export new XML with R3D settings, import XML into Premiere, fix things that did not conform in Premiere, Export and then re-import into AE. Is there a current (better) workflow when working with proxies in FCP and then wanting to master R3D’s in AE?

90% of the footage is R3d, but there are some timelapse shots that were done on DSLR’s so they were rendered to Prores to work in the FCP timeline in the above scenario. When exported as described above they created many problems in both Premiere and AE. As a result I have to manually remove them. Is that still a problem?

When in AE and grading are there any settings I should start with in order to take advantage of the new color science as well as FLUT?

What are the best settings to have in AE for grading R3D’s?

I’ve had a lot of problems and crashes with AE on larger R3D projects when rendering out. As a result I’ve had to break the project up into many small pieces. Is this still a problem?

As a result of rendering out the project in chunks I’ve had to re-import back into FCP to conform and color shifts have plagued me with this. What is the best output codec people can suggest. I wish to have both 4k and 2k output options.

Sincerely appreciate any help and pointers so I can hit the ground running.

Cheers,
Dale

By the way I am very aware of the need to get out of FCP. With that in mind I know we can improve the proxy mov->r3d workflow. We are working on solving the problem. Might be a little bit however...

Cheers

Dave

 

[HD Hildebrand]

I will look into this. It should maintain the CS4 color science version. however there is an older red sdk version that doesn't support updating from so it could be that...

Cheers

Dave

Appreciate you looking into it Dave. The CS4 version I'm using is 9.0.2.42.

Cheers,
Dale

 

[David Collard]

Brother...you should be speaking to someone who earns a living as a consultant
for such winded questions.

Check out the guy at: www.hdforindies.com

 

[HD Hildebrand]

I will look into this. It should maintain the CS4 color science version. however there is an older red sdk version that doesn't support updating from so it could be that...

Cheers

Dave

Here's some more info Dave: Been doing tests all night. The good thing about CS5 is it renders out 4k without crashing - CS4 when rendering out Prores4444, 4k, 32bit (16bit won’t work either), even Prores 422 16bit (that used to work in smaller chunks) won’t work.

So I bring the CS4 project in to CS5 - but the color, gamma, tint, nothing matches. I open up source settings in interpret footage and there are a number of things that do not match what was established in CS4.

CS4 Settings:
Space = REDspace
Curve = Rec.709
User Curve = As Shot
Preset = Custom
Kelvin = 6400
Tint = 0.00

Same project imported into CS5 Settings:
Space = REDspace
Curve = REDspace
User Curve = Disabled
Preset = As Shot
Color Version = Version 2
Kelvin = 4661
Tint = -7.724

Obviously the color and gamma are different with these settings, but even if I manually go in and change all the settings in CS5 to match, the gamma now is virtually the same but the color is still off by a rather large margin.

Also, to manually go into each shot in a large project with literally 1000’s of shots that have been meticulously color graded in CS4 is insane. Is there a global change methodology?

So, currently I’m stuck between one software that can’t render out and another that can’t maintain an established color grade.

Any thoughts?