Adobe Premiere CS6!

[Ivan G]

Premiere CS6

This product looks solid so far! I'm now ready to drop fcp like a bad habit! Fuck you Apple! Ok enough rant. CS5 premiere just didn't cut it for me. Too laggy, buggy, tools were not there, buttons were scattered.

My 2nd day at the NAB I decided to really pay attention to the Adobe suite. Sat through a seminar by a gentleman name Dave Dessler who owns and operates an Epic. He shot a 5 minute doc that was presented at the show. So immediately following the presentation I went over to unleash a wrath of questions! I've recorded the clip so have a listen at the bottom. I had a buddy who couldn't make it and didn't feel that the mercury engine was up to par so he forwarded a few questions for me to ask as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWXU_zVa6C0

So to recap, he told me he edits Epic footage being played back on a 3 year old Mac tower with 16gig of ram and Nvidia card at half resolution in realtime. That's good enough for me!

I then walked over to really see premiere up close and spoke to Tom from Adobe. I ripped on premiere for a little then asked him, so what's new? Being a premiere user since 97, it was not pretty at all.

So he begins by loading me the FCP7 keyboard layout. I was impressed! "M" Match frame "shift Z" view entire timeline! List goes on! I even tried the track tool but it was a no go I had to assign it myself. Ahh what hell, I'll do it I was also able to create quick shortcut icons just like fcp. I asked how come multicam auto sync feature was not included and he states comically that it might be in the next update, who knows.*He went on and explained that I'd be better off leaving the fcp layout behind and move forward and so did Dave who was a long time fcp user. Tom continues his demo and introduces a dynamic link in between AE and P that was amazing! This will fit gorgeously in my workflow. Tracking in AE has become GOD sent! I so under estimated this suite being that I am the critic like son of a bitch, but must say that what I saw at Adobe was mind blowing.

For all those chicken shits like myself that we're afraid to let go FCP7, I honestly think this is our answer. I held on to FCP for as long as I could and gave Apple my business as well as support and in return they... Whatever, time to move on!

I'm an old school editor so coming from the Amiga platform and being able to jump into a paint program, editor and Lighwave, this suite will fulfill my needs. I'm so excited to be able to go back and focus on being creative once again and not being an "I.T."

Once again it feels good knowing that the workflow has come up to par.

 

[Jose Espinosa]

+1 be brave!

 

[Jan Schuster]

I also had a great experience at NAB with the whole adobe cs6 suite. Dynamic linking between premiere and after effects was the real seller as well as the new 3d tracker. Many other advantages like being able to use r3d raw footage (no transcoding) and mixing different frame rates and multiple file formats in one timeline was "god sent". For me adobe was the highlight, If you upgrade to cs5.5 now you get cs6 free when it comes out in a month! Good bye fcp, welcome to the future

 

[Craig Parkes]

I'm a fan of Premiere Pro's background engine, and I am the first to admit that the interactivity of the timeline with cpu intensive codecs is impressive...

But the problem with this is that it's NOT actually full res 5K playback, it is playing back 5K files at some proxy level, which adjusts depending on your machines capability.

Which is great for creative editing with a smooth workflow, but isn't very helpful if you are needing to technically check the shots or work in an environment where the timeline you are working on has to go out to tape etc.

In these situations, a transcoded workflow is still better, because you are seeing what you will see in the deliverable on the timeline, and if you are transcoding anyway then the advantage of Premiere's realtime performance doesn't necessarily make up for it's slightly less mature toolset in terms of highly efficient offline editing.

It's kind of ironic that through the development of both systems, that Final Cut 7 was EOL'd when it sat almost perfectly in between Avid (which has moved closer to Final Cut in terms of interface and accessing file based formats, while retaining it's superior media management centric ideology) and Premiere (Where final cut wouldn't work with EVERY format natively, but it's quicktime centric workflow and OSX integrated media management ideology made it more flexible than both, while retaining the Walled garden of Quicktime to ensure that you could guarantee, within Final Cut at least, accurate hardware monitoring through third party devices).

I guess what I am saying is that Premiere Pro's more powerful playback engine doesn't negate the technical and practical reasons for many editors (especially in the broadcast world) why transcoding up front is a good idea... Which is something Avid understands in it's AMA footage in then transcode workflow.

This leaves us in a situation wherein while there used to be two mature mainstream solutions for high volume broadcast editing (Avid Media Composer and Final Cut Pro) and two mature solutions for promo/web/tvc editing and finishing (Final Cut Pro and Premiere Pro) and some high end finishing tools that these needed to interact with (Be it grading suites like Resolve/Baselight, DI/Finishing systems like Avid Symphony or Scratch, or Compositing/motion graphics capable software be it After Effects, Smoke, Nuke etc).

We are now in a situation where there is only one mainstream solution for high volume broadcast editing (Avid) one viable but growingly decrepit and EOL'd solution for high volume broadcast editing (Final Cut Pro 7), one immature solution for promo/web/tvc editing (Final Cut Pro X), one mature solution for promo/web/tvc editing and finishing (Premiere Pro) and now one high end solution for compositing/finishing of TVC's primarily being brought down to be made available for the wider web/promo/broadcast market (Smoke for Mac... Not sure if it will work for high volume broadcast post as I haven't really seen what the new editorial tools are like but they are obviously trying to pitch it as an editorial solution as well as finishing).

Which is a LONG way of saying that I hope either Adobe or Apple work harder at more closely addressing the needs of broadcast editors, otherwise Avid will again become the only game in town (which isn't great for innovation and competition.) and like it or not Broadcast is at the moment where the steady income is at for a lot of jobbing editors - although the web may become the deliverable of choice soon.

I am also excited, but somewhat cynical, about the increased functionality and power a lot of these tools are giving to day to day editors. Excited because it allows individuals to do more, cynical because there is a growing expectation for individuals to do more if the tools allow us, which can hurt projects when the mantra is to focus on developing Jack of all trade skill sets to get a job, rather than mastery via specialization. The jack of all trades mindset seems endemic to these first decades of a new millenia which will probably be remembered as the internet age, which is ironic when the main thrust of technical advancement via the internet etc one would think would be to promote collaboration...

 

[Mike Halper]

Ivan, I basically said the same thing after I actually tried using Premiere Pro CS5.5. I wish I had given it a more serious look and tried it much much sooner.

 

[Jean Bernard]

My reasoning for leaving FCP is now somewhat based on the actual company! I love apple and have plenty of I-device and MBPro, MBAir & MPro close to $20K worth and I am leaving them because the company has abandoned their professional line, and unlike Adobe or Avid that caters to pros, Apple now focuses on profitable consumer products and that was evident on the failed to impress FCPX move and their refusal to listen to their pro customer. They didn't even have a booth at NAB!!! And for that I am leaving, where to... not quiet sure yet! Avid in the past was the last one to adapt to new formats & camera support and that put me off and left for FCP, is that still the case? but I am not familier with Premiere as I always associated with amateur, although CS6 looks promising... I may have to wait and see!

What I am not looking forward is going back to Windows OS!!!

 

[Mike Halper]

Apple hasn't abandoned pros. They've been adding mostly pro features to FCPX since its release and announced even more pro features that will be coming out later this year. They did make a mistake in not having a smoother transition to the new FCPX, and they should have waited at least another year before releasing it, but they did not abandon pros.

And they haven't been at NAB for 3 years now and stated the reason is because they don't want to be forced into having an R&D schedule that they don't want or forced to announce new products on a specific schedule that they don't want. They also don't and have never showed at CES. Apple doesn't do any trade shows anymore other than their own WWDC, which is really geared towards developers for training and seminars in Mac software development.

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

I think AVID also skipped NAB once, after people ripped on Apple for not being there.
I do agree though that Apple could probably done some good by being on NAB, showing some of the strong points that FCPX has that the other NLE's can't match (and it has some of those).
But they didn't.

They also mailed me personally that they are really listening to the professionals and they want it to be considered professional.
Their first release of FCPX didn't back that up, but all the releases since then have. Their recent talk with Larry Jordan also proved that (look at the upcoming features).
I also began using FCP X after the big 10.0.3 update and I can say that the editing tools are a dream, if you get used to them.

Yes the program still misses a LOT of basic features. But update at a time they are getting there. I'm still watching Adobe CS6, but I'm also getting more confident in Apple getting it right. They did a big misstep, but they know they have, and they are busy rectifying it.

 

[Ivan G]

Very well put Craig, I'm not looking for 5k real time but just enough to playback smooth and use R3D's and be done with proxies. My old workflow consisted of using m proxies which Red has now dropped and not looking to be added any longer.

As for Smoke, it's always been a top notch compositor but I'm not sure the new editor is going to cut it. Yes it was beta but hung numerous times while being demo'd. Let's face it, Smoke is smoke with updates, they didn't come out and chop the tracker or dumb down the keyer so for those that have been using it, it only gets better. Are we ever going to get tracking, color, edit, audio processing etc all in, I doubt it, but never say never.

Jean if I ever had to switch to pc for any reason, that's the day I look for a new field.

Mike my friend I use to say the same thing about apple not abandoning us for about 4 years. How much abuse can one take?

Mat I've never even thought twice about Avid.

 

[Ivan G]

Another big plus for me was that I can simply drop and edit avchd files on the fly right from the card and not having to generate thumbnails or rewrap like fcpx. Apple mentioned this feature when X was released but was quick to find out folks were demanding refunds because they were full of shit.

 

[David Rasberry]

Considering that BBC converted more than 2000 edit suites from FCP to CS5.5 when it came out, I would say Adobe seems to suit high volume broadcast editing just fine.

 

[David McGavran]

But the problem with this is that it's NOT actually full res 5K playback, it is playing back 5K files at some proxy level, which adjusts depending on your machines capability.

Which is great for creative editing with a smooth workflow, but isn't very helpful if you are needing to technically check the shots or work in an environment where the timeline you are working on has to go out to tape etc.

Hi Craig,

I am very confused about what you are saying here. Can you please explain? In Premiere you have the idea of playback resolution and paused resoultion and they are individually controlable. With say 5k footage you have many options. You can make a 5k sequence and say set you playback to 1/2 or 1/4 to get realtime playback and then you can set your paused resolution to see the full res 5k image. (hard to see the difference on most monitors at this point though). Also with the new transmit we will put out those images directly to broadcast monitors with our partners. You can also put your 5k image into say a 1080p timeline and get high quality down sizing in paused and set your playback to 1/2 or 1/4 res again.

Any more info about your concerns? Red is interesting because of its fractional decoding it is very high performant for its size.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Craig Parkes]

Hi David, I am commenting less on what Premiere is doing than what people say they are getting performace wise when they say "and this 5k playback is all happening on x Mac Pro". It's not 5K playback on a Mac Pro, the video card is not outputting a 5K image, etc etc. This isn't Adobe's fault of course, its actually a sign of your guys success at making the creative process of editing seamless for the end user even with computationally heavy codecs on current machines.

But people offering praise to Premiere for this don't tend to be looking at it from the other direction, which is where you want to be seeing a technical representation of what you will be delivering as a master on screen as soon as possible. So if I can't work on a 5k RED timeline AND be looking at a realtime downconvert onto a HD Broadcast monitor, that I could lay out to tape, OR be looking at an actual 5K or 4k original image, then no matter what I am looking at it is a proxy of what will be delivered, either before downres, or a downressed proxy. Being able to look at a full res still frame doesn't help online editors spot technical issues as rhey are watching down something for example.

This isn't an issue with Premiere from a technical point of view, it is just an ideological difference that in part explains why Avid works the way it does as opposed to Premiere.

If I can work in realtime on a RED timeline, and output that to a Kona or Blackmagic or some other SDI card in HD realtime at 10bit color depth, and still get full RED acceleration on my timeline then that would match a transcoding workflow with realtime performance that I need in a broadcast sense now, while offering advantages that the transcoding workflow doesn't. However I don't believe Premiere can currently do that.

This not a complaint about Adobe Premiere, it's just really stating that for workflow to actually be realtime with no compromises you need to be looking at the ACTUAL image that will be delivered throughout the process and making decisions off that, and technologically we are not there yet for 5K or 4K, which means there is some sort of offline/online or proxy is process going on. Knowing that is happening, and having some certainty about what it is you are looking at is important. A transcoding workflow creates a baseline for that, if you transcode to DNxHD 175 then I know what you are looking at compared to DNxHD 36 from a technical perspective. If your Premiere suite can only Playback at Half res with a particular debayer setting and has to perform a high quality downres to HD on the final render, and you won't know what that looks like in realtime, and someone elses has to be setup differently to get realtime debayering, then technical considerations of the actual delivered image can only be made after that process AND two people on two suites can end up looking at different things when making technical judgements (like if a shot is soft etc).

This sort of stuff has very little bearing on creativity or offline editing, but a workflow that makes you make the decision upfront about technical delivery means you aren't caught with surprises (like lengthy final renders to make your deliverable) at the end of the process, and for some workflows thats the biggest consideration, how little time you have at the end of the process, rather than how quickly you can get into editing at the beginning of the process.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Craig, are you actually sure about your statements? I think i get the just of what you are writing, but not sure you make a strong case based on no real evidence. Seems to me that playback of the 5k file is just that...using cuda technology and redrocket card if you have those....as in my case i do...not being able to view in 4k or 5k because monitors have not been released is another thing...but the file playing back at high rez (4k or 5k) and viewing in hi-rez at paused or during playback seems to be all there....there does not seem to be any intermediate codec as you make a case....this is not my field of course, but can you state with 100% certainty your case is correct and we are not viewing or playing files back at full rez or the chosen rez you choose?

 

[Paul Ellington]

they need much better customer support....

 

[Johnny Friday]

they need much better customer support....

Don't they all....but i have to say, i get far further down the line with adobe versus fCP.

 

[Andrew_HD]

My reasoning for leaving FCP is now somewhat based on the actual company! I love apple and have plenty of I-device and MBPro, MBAir & MPro close to $20K worth and I am leaving them because the company has abandoned their professional line, and unlike Adobe or Avid that caters to pros, Apple now focuses on profitable consumer products and that was evident on the failed to impress FCPX move and their refusal to listen to their pro customer. They didn't even have a booth at NAB!!! And for that I am leaving, where to... not quiet sure yet! Avid in the past was the last one to adapt to new formats & camera support and that put me off and left for FCP, is that still the case? but I am not familier with Premiere as I always associated with amateur, although CS6 looks promising... I may have to wait and see!

What I am not looking forward is going back to Windows OS!!!

Try GV's Edius, specially when new 6.5 version comes in July or more- when (assumption) new Edius 7 64bit will be out- maybe IBC time. You may be surprised
And yes- in Edius everything is full quality (except RED preview- haha) and 4K on 12 core machine works like a charm- well, you can have 4 cameras in multicam mode, with color correction filter on each GV also has its own 10bit HQX codec which is up to Cineform FilmScan2 quality, if not better

 

[Johnny Friday]

Is Adobe giving us a 10 bit preview monitor out now? Tired of 8 bit monitoring...i had forgotten to ever ask about that....can't do any 10bit monitoring via any I/O boxes on Adobe...like in FCP---so i'd assume that was a given for cs6 yes?

 

[Andrew_HD]

Wait- you can't have proper 10bit monitoring with Premiere even with SDI cards- AJA etc?
I thought it was there for ages.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Wait- you can't have proper 10bit monitoring with Premiere even with SDI cards- AJA etc?
I thought it was there for ages.

NOPE--Aja, Matrox etc....all allow a flow through solution,but only 8 bit being sent out of Premier....this took me AGES to dig up and get to the bottom of....but i was told this COULD be in the new CS 6. FCP sends a 10bit out deep in a preference setup where you choose 10bit or 8bit.

It's up to Adobe to allow 10bit monitoring as i understand it. And you would expect this to be up on the list to get done