Adobe Media Encoder

[Andrae Palmer]

Does Adobe Media Encoder use CUDA for rendering? Does it use any features of Mercury Playback Engine? I'm comparing Premiere Pro CS5.5 to FCPX. I've had to turn off background rendering in FCPX due to it transcoding clips automatically... which sucks when I later add an effect onto the clip... the transcoding starts all over again. I think saving transcodes for final export is the way to go. I just want to know if there are speed drawbacks when I use AME for exports.

 

[paulherrin]

if you output from premiere some things will be cuda accelerated (just like if you rendered straight from there), but unless something is new with cs5.5, the media encoder itself is not cuda accelerated.

 

[Allan Tabilas]

Here's a few pages about MPE and AME improvements in CS5.5

http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprot...ocessing-and-the-mercury-playback-engine.html
http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprot...edia-encoder-cs5-5-whats-new-and-changed.html

In short, sequences that have various effects like color correction, or sequences with various clips of different framerates, sizes, etc is accelerated, and when using AME, will be accelerated also. It also helps to have a fast CPU along with a reasonably fast GPU to have balanced performance.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Allan,

I followed the two links you posted but haven't seen anything related to CUDA or MPE with AME. Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

[Todd Kopriva]

Paul nailed it with his answer.

Rephrasing:
When you export Premiere Pro sequences using Adobe Media Encoder, the rendering phase can be accelerated using CUDA, but the encoding phase (the part that AME itself does) isn't accelerated using CUDA.

 

[Johnny Friday]

OK....hope you still have your ears on Todd......I'm using a Rocket Card with PPro...and dropping R3d's on timeline....when i go to Reder entire work area--NO EFFECTS added....i seem to get these very long transcode times...for it to render out a green bar. WHY is PPro not utilizing my Rocket Card for Rendering? All i did was drop an R3d on a 1920x1080p timeline i setup and then set the clips to scale to source....From the slow render time i just got it seems i'm better off to just transcode footage in RCX and then bring clips in as Prores.....BUT, then that blows the benefits of using PPro for me....Am i missing something? SHOULD i have actually set up a timeline with RED preset INSTEAD of my Matrox Preset? I didn't mention i was also using Matrox -- to view on my 50"....so is that something that would have sped up my transcode/renders by choosing RED 1920x1080 preset instead? not sure why if that's the case.....

 

[Johnny Friday]

Let me add another MEDIA Encoder Question: (keep in mind i'm a recent FCP convert)
Working in PPro, select Sequence, File Export: set my settings in Export, then select Que and up comes media encoder and i click arrow to start my encode--works fine---SLOOOOOOW though.

**Now, when i do the same, but INSTEAD of selecting Que, i click EXPORT, an error message comes up........Can i just export direct and not bring up the Media Encoder dialoge box ? why the error messag?

 

[Johnny Friday]

Bump: DAVID or TODD ??

.....i'm assuming that PPro does not utilize Rocket Card in the transcoding part of this equation......since i get some incredibly slow exports out of timeline....AND AME, cannot utilize RR card just as there are other areas it does not use CUDA ??? NOW, that said, HOW can one get around this when one HAS a RR card ? OR, another Card?? Nvidia?? to accelerate the transcoding end of things?? I do see that in playback on the timeline i get good playback speed of Red footage, not as good as in RCX though....i can play back at FULL REZ in RCX and only HALF REZ in PPro.....Am i missing something? maybe with initial setup or do i need a different graphics card?

My setup is as follows:
Quad-Cor Intel Xeon
2.26GHZ
32GB memory (OWC)
Running my footage from E-sata drive....or my footage is stored on an exeternal e-sata drive

*I also here that it is good practice to somehow setup a project on one drive and scratch disks another???

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Johnny old friend,

I'm no Todd or David, but for what I've gathered, the Rocket cannot play a part, at least not yet, in transcoding out of Premiere, so you're left to your system's power and its compatibility to the Mercury requirements. What has made a difference for me is the graphics card, you need something with fast cuda cores, lots of them, that WILL make a difference. And no, you cannot export anything out of PPro without going through the ME, is just the way it's designed. BTW, I need to run something by you, so be on the lookout for a PM from me soon.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

and yes, definitely you want scratch folders on one drive, the video files on another one, and the Premiere program folders on yet another one, your boot drive in this case. The faster each of those can be, the better you are. I run my boot drive on raided SSDs, and everything else on SATA, both internal and external. That also makes a difference.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Rudi,
thanks for the comeback---AT LEAST i know then my setup is right....I think there is a LOT of catching up to do for ADOBE or anyone for that matter to keep pace with RED---Storm's a good example. BUT I DEARLY hope that ADOBE will implement the rocket into transcoding ability....For now i guess i have to look at a new graphics card.....your recommendations? w/out spending $4k.....Sure be nice to have SDI out....but i think that's BIG $$$.;

Standing by Rudi. Im off to shoot a sunset and back tonight.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Johnny,

The Quadro cards are the usual suspects, but I've found that their architecture is more suited for 3D applications than for the Mercury engine. Since I don't run 3D Max, Maya or any of those, I can get by just as well with the cheaper GTX cards. For around $700, the new GTX 590 is very nice, it has 3 dual DVI ports, which lets you expand to 3 monitors for the work area, which I do and love, and also has a mini display port, which is the earlier implementation of mini display, but still 10 bit and can be plugged to a display to SDI adapter if you want. The card is screaming fast on all of the Adobe tasks, and very cheap all things considered. I would start there and move up to Quadro when needed, then again, a few months down the road, I see the Rocket working with Premiere, so the Quadro and their SDI boards may never be needed.

 

[David McGavran]

OK....hope you still have your ears on Todd......I'm using a Rocket Card with PPro...and dropping R3d's on timeline....when i go to Reder entire work area--NO EFFECTS added....i seem to get these very long transcode times...for it to render out a green bar. WHY is PPro not utilizing my Rocket Card for Rendering? All i did was drop an R3d on a 1920x1080p timeline i setup and then set the clips to scale to source....From the slow render time i just got it seems i'm better off to just transcode footage in RCX and then bring clips in as Prores.....BUT, then that blows the benefits of using PPro for me....Am i missing something? SHOULD i have actually set up a timeline with RED preset INSTEAD of my Matrox Preset? I didn't mention i was also using Matrox -- to view on my 50"....so is that something that would have sped up my transcode/renders by choosing RED 1920x1080 preset instead? not sure why if that's the case.....

Rocket will be used if you set it up correctly. We also did a speed test with some great editors and it kicks butt... If you want to just transcode a single clip, turn rocket on in ame by right clicking on a R3D in AME 5.5 and go to source settings. There you can turn on rocket. If you want to encode a ppro sequence go into ame and make sure Rocket is OFF! Only 1 app gets the rocket remember. So make sure AME rocket is off, PPro rocket is On. Then QUIT PPro and launch ame and import the sequence. I know this a bit confusing but what happens here is that we have 2 PPros. We have the one you edit in and we have a no ui version that does the AME work. Only 1 gets the rocket so you have to quit the ui version. The other way to do this is to not hit the Queue button in the Export dialog but instead hit encode now.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Jake Bastian]

Thanks Dave, that's really useful info! Is there something in the works to streamline this process, like a grand central rocket station where we can be notified which programs are trying to use the Rocket when? or is that something that's out of the realm of possibility right now?

 

[Johnny Friday]

Dave,
but what about the RENDERING on the timeline in PPro? i'm aware of only one program....but i was NOT aware of when going to AME...but still, when i go to RENDER in my timeline.....and i have checked use Rocket card in the source settings of the clip, it does not appear to be using my Rocket card for the RENDER. Now, i'm not sure why the timeline NEEDS to render my R3d clips....Keep in mind i setup my timeline as 1920x1080p but NOT under RED presets...I was actually using the MATROX 1920x1080p preset.

My other question in this thread was just what you talked about...when i do go to EXPORT, i get an error message, but if i go to Queue, then that next dialoge box opens and i click the play or transcode button at top right...it TRANSCODES my footage. I've tried several variations of EXPORT and still get the ERROR message with red x in it.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Rocket will be used if you set it up correctly. We also did a speed test with some great editors and it kicks butt... If you want to just transcode a single clip, turn rocket on in ame by right clicking on a R3D in AME 5.5 and go to source settings. There you can turn on rocket. If you want to encode a ppro sequence go into ame and make sure Rocket is OFF! Only 1 app gets the rocket remember. So make sure AME rocket is off, PPro rocket is On. Then QUIT PPro and launch ame and import the sequence. I know this a bit confusing but what happens here is that we have 2 PPros. We have the one you edit in and we have a no ui version that does the AME work. Only 1 gets the rocket so you have to quit the ui version. The other way to do this is to not hit the Queue button in the Export dialog but instead hit encode now.

Cheers

Dave

DAVE, i would like to be clear here...you say IF YOU SET IT UP CORRECTLY....that said, what exactly do you mean? you mean for someone new setting up a rocket card OR, you mean within the software preferences inside CS5.5.1 I took down your instructions on turning off in AME etc....Ill try a few clips each way, but again, for straight render inside PPro, i see no use of rocket. I'll try it under RED presets later today and compare to my other workflow wich is Matrox 1080p setup. that was part of my earlier question if i needed to be within RED presests for the rocket to actually do the rendering??

 

[Brad Allen]

Hey Johnny!

Might seem a bit off the topic and I realize this doesn't solve your problem, but I'm wondering why you need to render within PPro? I almost never need to render anything on the timeline as GPU assistance seems to help out and take care of the bulk of post-processing effects. The only times that I'm needing to render these days is for using Colorista II - and even then it's normally real time playback with no render.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Hey Johnny!

Might seem a bit off the topic and I realize this doesn't solve your problem, but I'm wondering why you need to render within PPro? I almost never need to render anything on the timeline as GPU assistance seems to help out and take care of the bulk of post-processing effects. The only times that I'm needing to render these days is for using Colorista II - and even then it's normally real time playback with no render.

.....If i did not need to render, then i definitely would not. BUT...seems when i drop a clip on the timeline or make a small color correction, then i get the red bar above clips...meaning (as far as i know), those clips need to be rendered....Am i missing something? In fact with RED footage, i drop 5 or 6 clips and move them around and do NO EFFECTS work, just move them around and all of a sudden i get a red bar over one clip for some reason....no idea why, but then requires a HUGE amount of time to render...and again, seems VERY strange and counterprodoctive....

 

[Johnny Friday]

Brad/Dave:
so just did a TEST and might be noteworthy...
Took 4 R3d clips and setup a RED 1920x1080p workflow with RED presets.... i was able to just drop on the timeline...then export them and choose File Export, then within next dialogue box Export and the exported w/out having to open AME....the Render out or transcode out was pretty fast.....WAY MORE improved than my last run.

ALSO, when dropping footage on the timeline it comes out wiht the Yellow line - WHY? i have not done ANY Effects work. So, now with RED PRESETS, i then choose RENDER and now PPro seems to be taking advantage of my Rocket CArd. I'm no longer getting 12 to 1 render ratios....BUT, back to you Brad....why should i have to render? I do see that PPro is telling me that i need to render since i have the yellow bar over all my clips in the timeline?

So, what i proved was vs. my last test is that i must use RED presets. I last used a Matrox 1080p preset which seemed NOT to be utilizing my Rocket Card...going to test a 3rd time to know for sure.

 

[Brad Allen]

Hey Johnny,

Regarding the rendering on the timeline - if it plays back real time then you are good to go. You should only need to render something on the timeline if you aren't getting real time playback.

If you have a red line, then Premiere thinks you won't be able to achieve real time playback. Sometimes you will though depending on what effects you have applied to your clip - your computer may be fast enough to play it back real time (and you can always adjust your playback resolution to help out with this too.)

A yellow line means that your clips will playback real time, but don't match the sequence settings (using a 1080p sequence for 4k R3D's for example). It's not a problem, Premiere is just letting you know that it's having to do some extra processing on the clip. I think a yellow line often appears when a GPU accelerated effect is added to a clip too. EDIT: This may not be the best definition for what the yellow line shows, some footage even when not scaled or without effects still shows a yellow line.

The simple rule I run by is: if it's watchable, then it doesn't need rendering. Edit with a yellow line or even with a red line if you are still getting real time playback.

Regarding the export settings you just tested, the reason this worked is because Premiere already had control of your Red Rocket card. If it had of gone out to Adobe Media Encoder while Premiere still had control of your RR, then AME can't use it. If it can't use it, then that is what results in your longer render times. In your case though, because you exported within Premiere rather then sending it to the Queue, Premiere could use the RR it already had control over. Hope that makes sense