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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

A plea to Red Team

K

Kyle Presley

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Jim, Jarred and RED team:

I am very excited about the Scarlet Cinema and RED mini primes. I have the lighting and sound equipment and new computer/software to handle the workflow. I can't wait to buy Scarlet. I've had the opportunity to do some limited testing on the RED One (due to Peter Majtan's generosity) and was blown away.

I am a student and will have to save over the whole of 2009 to be able to afford just the Scarlet Cinema (with modules), though. My Question is about the Mini Primes.

When will we know ballpark pricing on these? I don't know if I should start buying C mount lenses on eBay before the premiums go up anymore or wait and save for the mini primes along with the Scarlet. My budget it tight, because I'm a student. I can afford to buy a mixed set of C mounts if I buy them now.

I need to know if I should do that, or wait on the mini primes. I can't make a decision until I know a ballpark figure on your lenses. I'll only need three starting out: 8mm, 16mm and 25mm for the stuff I want to do. Thanks. ;-)
 
I have been scoping out C-Mount lenses on eBay too - however it's hard to tell the quality of a lot of these lenses you find on the cheap - you have to consider the quality of sensor your going to be putting this glass in front of.
 
Kyle Presley said:
will have to save over the whole of 2009 to be able to afford Scarlet (with modules)
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Glad I'm not the only one. I'll be saving for the whole year also, Scarlet is the only reason I'm doing a 8:30 - 5:30, Monday - Friday for 2009. lol!

I can't wait to make some films again...
 
Matthew Blight said:
I have been scoping out C-Mount lenses on eBay too - however it's hard to tell the quality of a lot of these lenses you find on the cheap - you have to consider the quality of sensor your going to be putting this glass in front of.
Click to expand...

Quality-wise, a lot of them appear to be good. there is an a adapter to use c mount lenses on the Panasonic G1, so I did a search on Flickr, and was really surprised by the sharpness of these, even with the iris wide open. I think they might look a little dinky on a shiny new Scarlet. :innocent:
 
GG69 said:
Glad I'm not the only one. I'll be saving for the whole year also, Scarlet is the only reason I'm doing a 8:30 - 5:30, Monday - Friday for 2009. lol!

I can't wait to make some films again...
Click to expand...

Same here, but my hours are more like 4:30pm to 3-3:30am. :blink:

I've seen some good quality lenses on ebay (at least they look like they're good quality), but after looking at the test shot with the prototype 25mm mini-prime, I'm going to wait. If I have to either only start off buying one lens, or holding off on a few of the modules, then I guess I will. Hopefully I won't have to though.
 
The Bolex Switar C-mount lenses are usually very nice. Might be some around as people sell off their 16mm gear.

I think I remember there being something strange about the Switar's back-focus, however, to compensate for the Bolex camera's beam splitter. Maybe someone more optically-saavy (Duclos?) can tell us if they would work.
 
Kyle Presley said:
Quality-wise, a lot of them appear to be good. there is an a adapter to use c mount lenses on the Panasonic G1, so I did a search on Flickr, and was really surprised by the sharpness of these, even with the iris wide open. I think they might look a little dinky on a shiny new Scarlet. :innocent:
Click to expand...

That's good then. Maybe I will pick up some of those lenses now before there's a premium on them. I saw an 18-(I think)85mm f1.8 C mount go for about $40 a couple weeks ago. What are the chances of being able to test out the C mount lenses on a Scarlet prior to purchasing? Perhaps a friendly Scarletuser would do a test for us when it comes time.

BTW: Could you post any links to those Flickr pages you referred to?

Matthew
 
RX vs. Fujinon

RX vs. Fujinon

Brent J. Craig said:
The Bolex Switar C-mount lenses are usually very nice. Might be some around as people sell off their 16mm gear.

I think I remember there being something strange about the Switar's back-focus, however, to compensate for the Bolex camera's beam splitter. Maybe someone more optically-saavy (Duclos?) can tell us if they would work.
Click to expand...

Bolex lenses 50mm and down came in two types, one for the non-reflex cameras and ones for the reflex cameras, the ones for the reflex cameras should be marked with the letters RX on the mount end. Other makers also made RX lenses for the Reflex Bolex.

Because the Bolex REX prism is much thicker than the OLPF in SCARLET the RX lenses should be softer and have more focus problems wide open. When the cameras come out people can post tests, but I would avoid the RX lenese myself for now.

You cannot have a RX lens adjusted to work as a non-RX lens, the curves of the elements are not the same, it is not just a matter of backfocus.

You may get better results with the Fujinon 5 Megapixel 2/3" fixed focal length lenses, the Fujinon lenses are of a more modern design with good coatings and look quite crisp at the magnifications I have been able to look at them so far.

http://www.amerisponse.com/Fujinon_Pricelist.htm

http://www.fujinon.com/Security/ProductCategory.aspx?cat=48

http://www.fujinon.com/
 
Dan Hudgins said:
You may get better results with the Fujinon 5 Megapixel 2/3" fixed focal length lenses, the Fujinon lenses are of a more modern design with good coatings and look quite crisp at the magnifications I have been able to look at them so far
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Security camera lenses are better than my beloved Switars? Sacrilege!

So we couldn't just set a backfocus to match the RX lenses? Makes sense in a "I wish I knew more about optical voodoo kind of way."
 
RX vs. non-RX

RX vs. non-RX

Brent J. Craig said:
Security camera lenses are better than my beloved Switars? Sacrilege!

So we couldn't just set a backfocus to match the RX lenses? Makes sense in a "I wish I knew more about optical voodoo kind of way."
Click to expand...

As far as I know the Bolex REX lens mount had its backfocus adjusted for the prism so that long "C mount" lenses at small stops would focus at the INF mark.

The 10mm f/1.6 RX, 26mm f/1.1 RX, and 50mm f/1.4 RX seem to have had their elements curves adjusted to introduce uncorrected in air spherical aberration. At f/22 no change in backfocus over C mount would be needed, and adjusting the backfocus at full open would not correct for the RX lens perscription.

You can put anything in front of the sensor you want, but those lenses are not desigined for back focus through air as far I know. What makes things more complicated is that the camera is not a film camera full of air, it has the thickness of the OLPF and sensor cover glass, so lenses that are corrected for air have too much correction, so some sligltly under-corrected work best.

I think the RX lenses would be softer than the non-RX lenses wide open on scarlet after you adjust the backfocus on the mount, but time will tell, it depends in part on thickness of the OLPF and coverglass.

As for the 5 Megapixel lenses I mentioned, they are not cheep three element security camera lenses, they are very for high resolution machine vision and factory automation. You can ask a Fujinon dealer to barrow some samples for testing on Scarlet.

If you put the prism from a Bolex REX between the lens and sensor in a Scarlet to make it reflex, then you should use the RX lenses since they are corrected for the thickness of the prism.

16mm Bolex lenses where made for home movies, they for the most part are not above 50%MTF at even 100lp/mm as far as I can tell wide open, in fact they do not come up to SD resolution at 80%MTF wide open as far as I can tell, for Scarlet you need MUCH higher resolution than was needed for 16mm to get the full 3K*0.707=2.1K the camera might resolve well. Most lenses get better at f/4.5 to f/6.3, so much so that even cheep lenses can do as well as ones costing much more at f/6.3. It is mostly at the larger stops that you see the most difference, and newer lenses are computed using more modern software, the old Bolex lenses were probably computed on some punch card computer or something about that speed.

The first Switars date to about the late 1940's making them like a 70year old design, we have some and they are OK for 16mm film, but this is the digital age now, and unless you are going to shoot everything at f/6.3 you should think about what you need as far as resolution.
 
Ryan Valle said:
Afford only what can make you money.
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Or you're willing to throw away.

I start every project with the assumption that I won't make any money from it. I think that's a much better system.

Assume no investment will pay off and you'll die a wealthy man. :D
 
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