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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

a non-HDRx scarlet for the other 50%

a non-HDRx scarlet for the other 50%

  • Total voters
    164
Chuck Z said:
Even though I completely empathize with Petr Dvorak, I think jaadgy akanni is right on the money. HDRx™™ is just the "scapegoat" for the additional delay of the Scarlet program.
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Strangely enough I actually feel better about paying an extra grand for all the goodness in scarlet that was already spec'd. There's nothing wrong with non-HDRx red footage as we can already see in cinemas today.
 
Scott Crawley said:
To be fair Terry, I don't ever recall Mercedes promising to deliver an affordable drool mobile for the masses, and then pricing it out of reach for half of them. There are more affordable models, and they come with compromises.

I appreciate the no compromises approach, but some seem to feel as if the dangling carrot has been snatched away after years of waiting. I wouldn't fault them for that.
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You missed my (sarcastic) point. But, to correct you, they DID offer to sell that Mercedes SL, circa 1968, for $6800. But damn if they didn't go and raise the price before I could get in on the "good deal." The point wasn't about the price of the MB, it was about my behavior. Did I have any justifiable right to complain just because I couldn't afford it?

They changed their price because they HAD to. If they were still selling they SL for $6800, well, they wouldn't be because they'd have been out of business years ago! Businesses have to make a profit to stay in business and that means not selling at a loss just because some people want a lower price.

To jump on your thought train - there are also other models of camera - with compromises. Just because I can't afford the Mercedes doesn't mean I stopped driving. And that guy down the street with the SL who loves driving it so much; should I be pissed because he can afford it and I can't? At him" At MBZ?

I just wish people would stop using that word "promise." I guess we could argue about what a promise is, but, to me, there was never a PROMISE made. How could there be when every post and everywhere you look on REDuser and the RED site says... say it with me now... "SUBJECT TO CHANGE."

Maybe when some people were kids and a parent said "We'll see." or "Maybe." or "I'll try." they were the ones that were upset when the parent didn't deliver because they heard "I promise." Come on. Time to grow up. No promises were made. Targets were set but that is all.

RED has thus far offered way more camera for the money than anyone out there. Does anyone honestly think that is going to change with Scarlet or Epic? What IS crazy is that people are starting to ask questions about the "high" price of Epic... because of the tremendous capabilities of Scarlet. Jeesh, RED can't win.
 
Petr Dvorak said:
Terry I dont consider Red stuff like luxury item (unfortunatelly these cars are now electronic piece of crap) and sorry Oliver I spend on this subject only around 15 min because I have lot of work to do.


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A Scarlet is also a luxury item unless you are using it as a business tool. If so, it is about whether it is the best tool for the job and whether it's cost can be justified.

If I made a living with my my car, then I guess I'd have to consider whether I could do the job better (i.e. earn more money) with a $100K Mercedes. If not, there are cheaper "tools," but alas, they come with compromises.
 
I haven't missed your sarcasm or your point, but I stand corrected with regard to your example and beg your pardon. You have repeatedly called the complainers out as childish. I can respect that. I don't deny it. A large part of the demographic that Scarlet appealed to were young creatives, and creatives in general are often characterized as impetuous and selfish.

Red does promise and delivers a whole lot of camera for the money. That really can't be argued, and when they say they are planning an accessible camera that can deliver professional image quality, folks take that at face value. Red delivers. Dreamers dream.

I won't use the word hype because of the inherently negative connotation, but the Red marketing machine was in high gear when the Scarlet was announced and the excitement has been palpable. People bought in to it and they waited. Where you don't see a promise, others might even see a contract of sorts... Like Gingrich's contract with America. Trust me when I tell you I put more faith in Jim than Newt, but I don't personally invest in verbal contracts, so do me a favor and don't even go there.

I don't doubt that Scarlet will be all the better for having HDRx, but I also see the request that Red stay on track and actually deliver an affordable Scarlet as a reasonable one.
 
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Scott Crawley said:
I
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I don't doubt that Scarlet will be all the better for having HDRx™™™, but I also see the request that Red stay on track and actually deliver an affordable Scarlet as a reasonable one.
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I guess it all comes down to what is "affordable." Jim's affordable is different than your affordable which is different than my affordable. Who gets to decide? (Hint: I think it isn't you or me.)
 
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Scott Crawley said:
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I don't doubt that Scarlet will be all the better for having HDRx™, but I also see the request that Red stay on track and actually deliver an affordable Scarlet as a reasonable one.
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But what if they did make the Scarlet Lite... and nobody bought it?
 
What if...

I don't know all of the answers, and every day I am less certain that I know who Scarlet is targeting. It has taken a significant step away from the $6k segment right into $10-12k territory, and that is a smaller group with a very different demographic.

I used to think that students were part of the target audience for Scarlet, and there is great wisdom in creating a student model. It is an investment in the company's future. Filmmakers who cut their teeth on Red will be more likely to grow into dedicated professionals who rely on Red. I don't see a lot of students plopping down $10k for a camera.
 
Scott Crawley said:
What if...

I don't know all of the answers, and every day I am less certain that I know who Scarlet is targeting. It has taken a significant step away from the $6k segment right into $10-12k territory, and that is a smaller group with a very different demographic.

I used to think that students were part of the target audience for Scarlet, and there is great wisdom in creating a student model. It is an investment in the company's future. Filmmakers who cut their teeth on Red will be more likely to grow into dedicated professionals who rely on Red. I don't see a lot of students plopping down $10k for a camera.
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You might want to read this:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50426

Just posted tonight.
 
Right... There it is.

:closed2ur0:
 
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Even though I thought it would be good to come with a non HDRx capable Scarlet, I think that when RED decided to implement HDRx in the Scarlet, this was the only likely outcome.
 
I feel your pain.

I feel your pain.

I think its important for us all to realize two things.

1) none of us own the company (well maybe one but he isn't you or me), Red is going to do what red feels is best. And red is a professional camera company that will live and die based on quality not price.

2) Some of the people excited about a red scarlet really don't have $7000 for a base package and they are upset about that. if you got drunk and wrote something stupid here and got an email saying you are banned from buying anymore red cameras you would know how they feel. So saying if you don't have $10k for a camera you aren't serious is not the nice way to deal with this.

But the good news is for those who are thinking the camera is now out of their range is that its only temporary. There are going to be a lot of Scarlets sold. There are going to be a lot of first time scarlet buyers who want to move up to the epic and will sell their used Scarlets.

Even if Scarlet holds its value there will be serious cameras that can do almost as much available within 3 years from others. Your time is still coming. Maybe its pushed back a year. After scarlet has been out in volume for 18 months I wouldn't be surprised if there are cheaper red cameras. Heck the red one may drop to $5k on ebay.

I rushed out and bought the first generation iphone for $600 and still happily use it. But 2-3 years later you can get a MUCH better iphone for like $97 at walmart. And after apple made the iphone everyone else stepped up their game and there is hardly any benefit in iphone vs android or any of the others that are even cheaper.

Red is pushing the industry. Thats great I like red just like I love apple. But the industry will push back and those who can't afford a scarlet will have options either in the form of used red products, rental red products or products from other companies.
 
Hmmm. The problem with Scarlet getting so expensive is the possibility (growing more remote with each passing day) of being able to afford to buy or rent several Scarlets for a shoot the way Shane Hurlbut does with that camera 'who must not be named' from the company that starts with a C and ends in a N and has an ANO in the middle. He goes out with something like thirty of those suckers. Leave a camera on a Steadicam for the day, put one in a tree and leave it there for the day, etc. The way things are going between face recognition auto focus and/or cheap motor driven remote follow focus systems, inexpensive motion control and the like you could do a multi camera shoot with state of the art cameras controlled by one guy in a video village. Add some of the remote controlled new LED lighting systems (including color temperature control) and things are getting pretty interesting.
But do I need HDRx™ on every camera for something like that? Pretty soon that extra grand might buy me another whole camera.
 
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