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A New 3K FF35 Brain Spec?

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Tom Lowe

Tom Lowe

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The beauty of DSMC is its modularity. With all the talk about these new DSLR cinema cameras, I wonder if Red might consider a new Scarlet FF35 brain?

How about these specs:

FF35
3K RAW
60fps

Done deal. That's it. No 4K, 5K, none of that. 3K = 1080p finish with some room for fixing problems. The photosite/pixel size could be F'ing massive for some serious low-light shooting!
 
*bottle breaks against the wall near Tom's head*

Do you know what 5K smells like, Tom? It smells like victory!

In all seriousness, it would be a step down to make the FF35 Scarlet anything less than it is. RED has this all planned out already and, unless they're dropping models and switching things up, then it is all seemingly set in stone to a degree.
 
Zack Birlew said:
*bottle breaks against the wall near Tom's head*

Do you know what 5K smells like, Tom? It smells like victory!

In all seriousness, it would be a step down to make the FF35 Scarlet anything less than it is. RED has this all planned out already and, unless they're dropping models and switching things up, then it is all seemingly set in stone to a degree.
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All plans are subject to change, my friend. Of course I know what 5K and 6K RAW are -- I shoot on that exact format all the time! 5D2 timelapse is 5.6K RAW. I know it smells like victory! But for video, I would be happy enough with a 3K FF35 camera with 60fps RAW with stunning low-light capabilities.

I bet if Red built a 3K 60fps RAW FF35 camera at a good price, it would be their top seller. To me, that is where the biggest hole in the market is.
 
Kenneth Elkington said:
The problem is that's as whole new sensor design, and would be at least another year over the forthcoming scarlets.
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I thought there was a discussion a few months back where Jim said basically the same thing. I'm not sure if I can dig it up but I'll have a look.
 
Birns and Sawyer said:
I thought there was a discussion a few months back where Jim said basically the same thing. I'm not sure if I can dig it up but I'll have a look.
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Well it's really just the nature of CMOS design. It doesn't scale in the same way the fabric does, you can't just get a bigger piece and then stitch the ends. It requires new transistor designs and all of the necessary tech that a photographic sensor requires, on top of the necessary testing, and power circuitry. Even if you're using the same fundamental photosite design there's an enormous amount of other work to be done.

That's also not to mention the fact that if you're making an FF35 sensor for cinema the yields on silicon likely wouldn't be cost-effective on what you're asking for in the near term.
 
Zack Birlew said:
*bottle breaks against the wall near Tom's head*

Do you know what 5K smells like, Tom? It smells like victory!

In all seriousness, it would be a step down to make the FF35 Scarlet anything less than it is. RED has this all planned out already and, unless they're dropping models and switching things up, then it is all seemingly set in stone to a degree.
Click to expand...
Agreed 100%.
 
Yes, there's a potential for such a product.

Someone even mentioned that it's being designed by some unnamed company.
 
Keep in mind, though, that a native FF35 3K sensor would have wildly different characteristics (less noise, greater sensitivity, etc) than a 6K sensor windowed to 3K.

In fact, I've never even heard of an FF35 sensor that is only 4MP, or whatever 3K works out to. It would be a very, very extreme CMOS design. I assume a design like this could boast ridiculous low-capabilities?
 
Jay Voutour said:
I don't think Tom was suggesting to RED to cripple the current spec'd FF35 Scarlet; it would be a next-gen, different model meant to *obliterate* the current offerings of vDSLRs in terms of performance and price.
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Yep. It would not take away an current brains, just add a new brain option.

Low price, high ISO ratings, and 60fps RAW would indeed make this a "vDSLR Killer." :sifone:
 
I'm just seeing a no-brainer in just three 3K killer words: 4K RED RAY

E. :-)
 
There are good applications for large pixels on large sensors for low light and there are applications for small sensors with small pixels and high resolution. Yes, there should be a choice.:)

In underwater applications, for example, small high resolution sensors are better because:

1. If you are shooting wide, the field curvature is minimised
2. If you are shooting macro, you can have more than a couple of millimiters DOF

For night time applications you would want the opposite: Large pixels on a large sensor. 4 or 5k is not really needed or even desired.

I agree, it would be great to have those choices.
 
There is a thread floating around on the myth that larger pixels produce less noise. The gist was that most of the noise is read noise, quantization error, so having one large pixel in place of say 4 smaller ones is actually noisier as you get less quantization error with 4 samples vs 1 for the same area.

Edit: Dan beat me to it. Very thorough and educational post by him.
 
Well there must be some advantage to larger photosites?
 
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