A hypothetical: Output to HDcam SR

[Joe VanDalsem]

Hello, was hoping for some input on this.

Lets say that I want to lay off my red Raw footage to HDcam SR with scratch to create HDSR masters at 444. meaning, I wouldn't go back to REDCODE Raw to online my show, rather, i'd online from the SR 444 masters.

How much, if at all would my image be degraded if while laying off to SR, I had rec709 color space applied as opposed to Red Log color space. Would I be losing much of my latitude?

Thanks!

 

[Joe VanDalsem]

I frown upon you all for not responding. that's right, you guys, you're getting the frowning of a life-time right now. From ME!

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

That's how its mostly done in commercial-land. Posthouses there want to use Avid, FFF, Quantel etc.. Also versioning, archiving are a vital part of their business. Plus re-conforming with FCP, Crimson, RC is not fun.

Using a SR makes a lot of sense in this regard. Scratch can do RT-dailies 4K RAW half debayered. For full debayer one must render. AFAIK the Nvidida HDSDI out is only 422, which is plenty enough in most cases.

BTW, the new SpeedGrade build can do 4K RAW half debayer as well, build 16 will change this probably. There are always downsindes...

Hans

 

[Joe VanDalsem]

Thanks Hans for the info, However, that wasn't really my question. I just want to know if having rec709 applied to footage is going to give me a degraded image when I lay off to SR.

SO, which is better, Lay off to SR 444 with rec709 applied, OR, lay off to SR 444 with Red Log color space applied. My hunch would be to keep it in RedLog, keeping the most latitude in my 444 SR tape. If i can only get 422 out of the nvidia HDsdi, will that make a difference than if I could get 444 out?

What if I was rendering out to some 444 10bit quicktimes and laying to tape from final cut at dual stream 444 to SR, would it be better to make the 10bit 444 quicktimes in redLog or with 709 applied? Again, my hunch would be to keep it in log, but I just don't know if it matters once i get to SR tape.

Thanks.

 

[Manuel Wenger]

My guess is also you´re better of with RedLog vs. 709, the highlights roll of a lot nicer than in 709. I´d stay in 444, especially since you have to Color Correct/ transfer log to lin for your end result.
depending on what format you´re going in the end I´d even consider dpx files instead of QT 444 uncompressed, I´m always happy when i can bypass QT.

Manuel

 

[Adam Glick]

... If i can only get 422 out of the nvidia HDsdi, will that make a difference than if I could get 444 out?
...

The standard Nvidia Quadro HD-SDI option allows Scratch and Scratch Cine to output HD & 2K @ 10bit 4:4:4 RGB via dual-link...

It is my understanding that going out to tape with rec709 applied is "standard practice" when laying off to SR or D5. But this may be just for "off-line" cutting copies...

I'll let somebody smarter than me respond to when/if using the "log" curve might be a better choice.

Adam
BOXXlabs

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

rec 709 has its place

rec 709 has its place

The easy answer is to ask the post house that will be dealing with the SR tapes. I would tell them that rec 709 will be easier to work with when the client is around, it will look good on any decent monitor and it can be finished pretty quickly. If the Director or DP or someone else who counts is all cranked up to get the most out of the image or to use the timing pass to accentuate a mood, etc - but there is no provision in the post workflow to go frame based DPX - then I might offer them a RedLog version on SR, but only if I am sure the colorist, not just some producer, knows what they are getting.

Bottom line - if max information at the final cc stage is important then go DPX and don't go to SR until you are making a master. If a smooth integration with existing post infrastructure is your highest priority then a decent grade of the RAW in Scratch laid to SR in rec 709 should serve nicely for a TV deliverable.

Just my 2 cents. Cheers-

 

[Joe VanDalsem]

If a smooth integration with existing post infrastructure is your highest priority then a decent grade of the RAW in Scratch laid to SR in rec 709 should serve nicely for a TV deliverable.

Just my 2 cents. Cheers-

Thanks, that's what I suspected. Seems like feature work should stay in redLog if they are using the SR workflow instead of a frame based DPX or Tiff or other digital online work flow.