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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

A controversial Komodo topic - Footage and DP's

Curtis boggs said:
#3, understand there has been some less then great footage posted.

But I can share this. I have posted a few things from jobs but are limited what I can post. But primarily bigger productions are shut down so I'm not really sure what you expect.
On top of that keep in mind people are doing what they can and I respect their effort.
I posted a video of footage I shot hand held in the afternoon at the ocean front in an effort to show what the camera can do right out of the box.
Now I didn't really think the images where bad and in fact shot back lit silhouette, into the sun, dark to show shadow noise etc. and show the sensor
capability quite well.

Most mid level productions are changing in a very big way. Crews are getting smaller etc as has been stated. I work shooting mostly commercials for agencies and small business.
This work is very different then big studio narrative or TV shoots. They all have their specialized skill sets and techniques so no single one should dominate any decision for Komodo.
On commercials under $100k I'm lucky if I get a focus puller. Better face the facts, the business is changing drastically and not for the better.

I shoot fashion and lifestyle with a specific style that Komodo lends it's self to. Very hand held and "free".
I used to shoot fashion and commercial stills on a 500c Hasselblad. Komodo feels just like my old Hassy and really feels good to me.
For lifestyle and fashion it's likely it'll be my A camera and the Iphone / Ipad Red control app with monitoring will make it great for smaller productions.

HOWEVER the fact Komodo does not have all the connections, the high frame rates and able to shoot prores proxy in camera, it'll never be a "big production" camera I feel.
One issue is the size and weight where a heavier camera can be an advantage hand held. But also bigger rigs where we need wireless video, wireless focus, CineTape etc,
the DSMC2 I think will still be king.

Cheers,

Curtis

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Nice, and not just the beauty!
 
I think it is quite unfair to criticize what has been published so far. None of these people have been asked to share anything. There is a global pandemic that makes shooting something stellar a little more out of reach or near impossible to pull off. the purpose of putting these cameras out was not to show off what the camera can do but rather put it in the hands of people of various skill and use cases to put it to the test and make it fail or make it work. Again, none of these people have any reason to share anything except that they want to try and help the community and help others know what it can do. Calling out a cat video or shots of airplanes is unrealistic. The ability of a camera doesn’t show its true capabilities in every shot of a short/movie/clip/or even a scene. Sometimes what a camera can really do is in 1 single short clip in the middle of everything else.

These are all artists that paint with different paint brushes. Just look at all the different color grades that come when R3D’s are released. Everyone has a flavor, a look, a feel. Why not just say “thank you” be be patient? I know you expected to be chewed out for posting this, you even said “go ahead and chew me out”, but why not take the side of, “wow, I’ve never seen a company give out a beta camera to a variety of people before and simply allow them to post what they want? I believe, if you spend a little time looking, you will see the capabilities of his camera in a few of the shots that are out. They are trying. They are sharing. They are doing what they can, in these times, to put something out for the people who do nothing but complain about no footage, when will it ship, why is it X or why is it Y.

I’m not chewing you out but rather, asking you to take a little different look and perspective at what is happening and simply wait for it. Whatever it is you want to see will show up, eventually, good or bad. And you will have you answer.



Joesef o. said:
So here's a controversial topic I will bring up...

My belief is, we are not going to see many clips of proper cinematography footage for a while from this camera. In the sense of full scenes, expertly lit with actors, sets, and quality control, I feel we will not get this anytime soon. My reasons are as follows:

1) I believe the shear price point of the komodo lends itself to being purchased by less than experienced and less quality level "DPs" than with other camera systems. This is an easy buy in to the RED name on the cheap, and it's become quite popular of a buz with younger filmmakers. Younger filmmakers and amateur filmmakers don't really shoot the best footage....

2) Lot's of productions are just shut down or scaled to limited options, so having a normal set with proper gaffer, lighting, set design, and actors is going to be hard to come by for months...

3) A rush to get footage "out" has put pressure to just show footage from the komodo, but unfortunately just turning on a camera and shooting really doesn't show off its quality. The few guys that have the komodo in there hands have put out some lack luster images so far, and I feel its just from pressure of the community wanting to see something. In that rush, they get cat videos, random shots of airplanes, overly crushed post images, ect...

4) Because of price point some buyers of this camera might not really be into traditional cinematography. They might be more ENG, Corporate, Documentary, Live show, or fly on the wall people who are tempted. This means that their idea of a good cinematic image will differ greatly than that of say someone who loves traditional quality scripted fictional movie making. A difference in opinion with these people are always a battle online. Between the people who shoot a sit-down interview in a semi-uncontrolled environment with maybe 1 or 2 lights and think the shots look "amazing", and then those who go the extra mile to control every aspect, get everything perfect, have higher understanding of quality light, better tools, better skills...


I feel like this is going to hurt the komodo's name for the first half of the year its out. Which worries me, I've seen this happen many times before with other camera systems, it's a phenomenon thats unforutnate but true for many GOOD quality cameras that are priced in the prosumer level.

This sucks because I don't want it to tarnish the name of the camera or its actual capabilities. I do believe this camera is A-Camera level quality, and can fully support a feature film production rigged out. I would love to see it fully adopted as an A camera, instead of thinking it's not possible. I used to be a RED owner for many years with a few systems, I left camera owning all together for a while, then I eventually bought an Arri system. Everyone in the cinematography community on larger sets seems to love shitting on RED. Arri has a reputation that is second to none, so to battle side by side with a relatively new company that pushes tech like RED... and well you get this snobbery. I do love my Arri color science and quality of image, however I have shot and seen AMAZING footage from RED systems just the same.

I write this in hopes that any of you that do get this camera, step up your game a bit and post some better than average footage. There's nothing wrong with pushing your abilities harder and take more care of your image quality. To the students and younger or less experienced that will buy it, please take your time and learn your craft and study what makes an image a good one. I also feel like people will argue about this camera a lot in where it "belongs".

I personally see this as a stripped down A-camera. Not a "B or crash cam". Time will tell how others handle their workflows. Once I get my hands on mine, I will not post cat videos or random shots of things, I'll keep those to myself, when I do post it will be from controlled situations or properly colored and managed footage to SHOW OFF the cameras abilities and let it stand out as a good system.


Now go ahead and chew me out, but I've been doing this my whole life and see this time and time again when new digital systems comes out.
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Nick Morrison said:
I don't think anyone needs to panic.

RED is unusual, yes, in that they don't hand out their first 10 cameras to the likes of Roger Deakins.

Instead, they gave them to real users with different needs.

Ie what you are seeing then is real footage, shot by real people.

Not slick commercials that only shows the good, and never the bad.

Think about that - there's a confidence there we haven't quite seen before.

RED is almost daring these beta testers to "break" the camera and the sensor.

And I'll admit, I've been impressed by lots of the test footage, for reasons that aren't always obvious.

For example:

1) The global shutter is real.

2) The small body appears to work well (there's an intimacy to holding such a light weight camera)

3) The internal mic sounds better than expected

4) Fans appear to be quiet (we've heard no complaints so far).

5) The image looks GOOD - it's clean, the color is there, it's just very solid.

I'm not sure what there is to complain about, honestly...
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So roger deakins isnt real? He's a DP, I shoot stuff similar to him, I'm not more real than he is, in vice versa...

Arri puts their cameras in the hands of the best of the best to show off a cameras abilities, I see 0 wrong with that. It's mostly why in the upper stage of cinematography, RED seems to be shunned. It's this weird "we dont care" outlook... I just dont get it. I'll be owning my Alexa XT and the komodo side by side, yet on my big shoots, pretty sure they will prefer I bring the alexa kit vs RED. RED made their own stigmata simply because they carry themselves as cowboys and misfits, instead of solid and reliable and trust worthy.

I'm just pointing out the facts, it's weird and don't understand why RED doesn't clean up its act and just take themselves seriously and compete with Arri more on the same playing field... Maybe Jarred just doesn't care? Guess thats fine, but as someone who truly believes RED cameras make AMAZING footage pretty much on par to Alexa in most situations, all they have to do is clean up their wild west way of doing things and really hit home with its base.

Just look at the huge amount of oscar winning movies over the years, time and time again shot on Arri cameras, from film to digital, very few RED productions ever make it into the nominees...

I guess it's just how RED is, and its users are.... I personally don't understand it, but oh well. I'll love my Komodo when I get it, and make beautiful images with it, just wished the name wasnt so... I dont know,frowned upon by major motion picture productions.
 
My take on all of this is that if RED really wanted to take care of the PR image of Komodo, they would do so. I think a lot of random people online don't even know what this camera was originally designed for. They only see RED and they jump immediately onto the hate train because hating RED is trendy these days.

Honestly, I think RED could care less of how many Komodos they sell to the average Joes when they have Matrix 4 shot on them. If they really did we would see NDAs, properly shot promos, and marketing campaigns. The general public doesn't know any of this of course and the only thing they see is beta footage which they immediately start to compare with anything out there. Only RED knows what they are doing and why they are doing it this way. I have to admit I kinda admire it.
 
Joesef o. said:
So roger deakins isnt real? He's a DP, I shoot stuff similar to him, I'm not more real than he is, in vice versa...

Arri puts their cameras in the hands of the best of the best to show off a cameras abilities, I see 0 wrong with that. It's mostly why in the upper stage of cinematography, RED seems to be shunned. It's this weird "we dont care" outlook... I just dont get it. I'll be owning my Alexa XT and the komodo side by side, yet on my big shoots, pretty sure they will prefer I bring the alexa kit vs RED. RED made their own stigmata simply because they carry themselves as cowboys and misfits, instead of solid and reliable and trust worthy.

I'm just pointing out the facts, it's weird and don't understand why RED doesn't clean up its act and just take themselves seriously and compete with Arri more on the same playing field... Maybe Jarred just doesn't care? Guess thats fine, but as someone who truly believes RED cameras make AMAZING footage pretty much on par to Alexa in most situations, all they have to do is clean up their wild west way of doing things and really hit home with its base.

Just look at the huge amount of oscar winning movies over the years, time and time again shot on Arri cameras, from film to digital, very few RED productions ever make it into the nominees...

I guess it's just how RED is, and its users are.... I personally don't understand it, but oh well. I'll love my Komodo when I get it, and make beautiful images with it, just wished the name wasnt so... I dont know,frowned upon by major motion picture productions.
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Roger Deakins is in a class by himself. Obviously he's as real as you and I. My point was pretty clear - RED is casting a wide net for their beta test of Komodo. We know some A listers are using it, Jarred has teased that (Matrix, Soderbergh, etc). My larger point is RED doesn't seem to feel the need to make a slick commercial for Komodo. They clearly appear to feel the camera and footage will setll itself.

And Arri's popularity vs RED has nothing to do with RED not making good cameras. It has mostly to do with Arri catering to a very specific user base and managing their needs and workflow exceptionally well.
 
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People shoot on ARRI because they prefer the color science to RED or Sony Venice or Varicam. Not because RED is a "shunned" brand that hasn't "gotten it's act together" marketing wise.

Are you saying people like Fincher and Bay and Soderberg only shoot RED to be different?

And have to say your post has a bit of a gatekeeper(ish) tone. Like ...

"Wow, this is a sub $10,000 RED. That's great for me and my Alexas but .... oh no ... it's not exclusive anymore! All of these 'less skilled, low quality' DP's will have access to RED cinema cameras now. How dare they try to use AF lenses and not manually pull focus walking backwards downhill in a snow storm on vintage Cookes and Arri Master Primes like us pros!"

You may not have intended it to read like that, but it kinda reads like that.
 
Joesef o. said:
So roger deakins isnt real? He's a DP, I shoot stuff similar to him,
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i would like to see the stuff you shoot similar to his...Thats a quite bold statement to make :)
You think you are shooting similar stuff to his just because you are using same brand camera?
Oh also Oscar doesnt mean shit for technical stuff.Have you ever hear movie called Slumdog Millionaire? That was shot on SI2K.
Are you gonna say SI2K was a better camera than Red One? with your logic it should be because it won best cinematography oscar.
 
I say let people make what they want to make with what they want to make it with. I too haven’t been totally impressed by the Komodo footage but I’m sure we’ll see some people make amazing things with it just like we see not so good DP’s make not so good stuff with Alexas or other high end cameras. Everybody’s got a voice and not everyone is going to create Oscar worthy stuff and it’s not for the people who make that stuff to try to slam the door shut on the people who aren’t on their level. We need everybody’s voice and art, big or small
 
This discussion is starting to sound strangely political. As if companies like ARRI are the real masters and only those who are blue bloods should be listened to and admired for their obviously better breeding and thought process. Unlike that brash RED collection of folks who are renegades and like to shake up the status quo. How dare they come out with something so cheap as Komodo. Look at all the poor images given by the great unwashed. This must not stand.

Seriously?
 
Mark Phelan said:
This discussion is starting to sound strangely political. As if companies like ARRI are the real masters and only those who are blue bloods should be listened to and admired for their obviously better breeding and thought process. Unlike that brash RED collection of folks who are renegades and like to shake up the status quo. How dare they come out with something so cheap as Komodo. Look at all the poor images given by the great unwashed. This must not stand.

Seriously?
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Seriously?!
 
Joesef o. said:
Also as someone else mentioned my point of this topic is to warn the people who are eyeing this camera as a serious cinematography camera, NOT to judge based on the first footage coming out of it right now. I see a LOT of negative comments about the Komodo on youtube clips of random shots that were posted. I see the camera in the hands up some that just did a horrible first impression of the camera and I'm trying to give reasoning for it.
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So should we count Michael Bay among the horrible? Many here like to use kid gloves when taking about these cameras. They are merely tools to capture imagery to convey a story. The more efficiently they can do that the better. And franky anyone that says things like, "I don't believe in less work to get the shot"... is clearly not the one writing the checks.
If AF is a joke.... why are Jarred and company working so diligently to make it happen on Komodo?
Cameras are evolving... anything that can make the job easier and quicker should be welcomed. The old adage ,"Time is money" still applies.
 
Well that escalated quickly hahaha. People like to read into whatever they see. I made my statements quite clear, there is a polarizing difference in people interested in Komodo and I think it's going to be weird to see a lot of bad footage before we see good footage. Also, Arri holds itself up to a standard with their products and how they are presented. I just wish RED did the same, you can still be a mavrik and keep up with a good PR platform.

Anyway enjoy arguing, I've posted what I wanted to post, as the title says "controversial" for a reason, this will only lead to arguing, so battle away if you're interested lol. I'm just going to impatiently wait to get my camera.
 
Good points although arri's release video for the mini LF was actually pretty bad, harsh grade, funny thing is no one really cared because they knew its capabilities

This is the same discussion that happens every time Red releases a new camera

same same same

And it will be the same for the next one...
 
RED has gone 1000% beyond the things people like ourselves and our clients asked them for with this camera.

We're not able to show 99% of the footage we've been involved with over the years because of copyright -- but it is in so many feature films and hundreds of commercials.

We specifically asked RED that their next camera solve the GoPro / Action camera problem. Wow. Komodo crushed that request.

Re: politics and branding -- that popularity contest in our industry is so difficult for so many reasons. There's been something similar happening over at Tesla

Reality is that we have easily matched RED-Arri-Sony on tons of projects. Matching any of them to GoPros and iPhones has been way tougher. Glad we no longer have to do that. Thanks for listening RED!
 
Sounds like someone is very insecure about themselves... the signs are all there, worried about what other people think, trying to compare yourself to people like Deakins... the first sign of someone insecure is when they tell you how many years experience they have yet they don't even have their real name or their work openly out there to stand by... and all they do is talk and state their 'opinion' and tell people how they should act... Like I said before... are you a leader or a follower?

I for one know that because of the Red One I've been able to learn the craft of both cinematography and filmmaking that was approachable at the time and continue to grow in both... if it wasn't for them doing their own thing at the time they did, who knows... I'm sure I would have found a way eventually but Red helped paved the way... as it has for many filmmakers and will continue for many filmmakers. I for one am excited for the Komodo because I know I can approach my craft in new exciting ways, one of efficiency and spontaneity, both equal to endless possibilities to be creative. Some of my favorite filmmaking experience have been with a Red and that will always stay with me, once again because it allowed me a freedom of creativity when I needed it, just a camera body that fits into a backpack and a couple of lenses.

I do want to thank the early adopters/owners of the Komodo who have put in their time to test these cameras and to give us feedback on all things but more importantly to share their experiences in the true sense of community. I've reached out to a few who have been gracious with their time in answering questions I have. Really appreciate it so thank you.
 
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