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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

8x fixed, focus/zoom/iris ring

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Max M.

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Hello,

While reading more and more about the Scarlet 8x I get really enthousiast. But I don't really understand why RED has chosen for 1 assignable ring on the 8x fixed lens.

The really nice thing about 2/3 B4 lenses is the ability to control zoom, focus and iris with one hand and while keeping frame easily adjust one of the three. Thats what I also really liked about the Sony EX cameras, the ENG style operation.

So assuming I have the scarlet on a shoulderrig, then one hand would support the camera, and the other one would turn the zoom/iris/focus ring. If I constantly have to press a button on the camera to change the funtion of the ring or adjust the iris on the touchscreen its hard to do this smooth and fast. Because it's a 2/3 inch camera I would be using it alot on documemtary and tv work, where I have to adjust fast and quick.

I was wondering why RED chose this single ring approach, what is behind this choice and how you guys think to operate the lens?
 
For me it will probably be usually set to focus - in most narrative shooting there isn't a lot of zooming to be done during most shots, and iris can usually stay where it is. But for documentary on the other hand, I would use auto focus and use the ring for zoom.

There is a small ring on the REDMOTE, which hopefully can be used to set iris. And of course if you want more of a follow focus feel, the REDMOTE Pro will be released soon.
 
In addition, the side handle has a rotary encoder (aka thumb "scroll wheel") as well as a rocker on it, Asssign whatever lens functions you want to each.

I'd imagine I'd likely default to:

Lens ring: Focus
Handle rotary encoder: Iris
Handle rocker: Zoom.

-sc
 
I had wondered this as well, Scarlet's one ring to change them all design seems contrary to how most pro cameras are designed. The only reason I can think of is that although the 3 functions (zoom, focus, iris) are frequently changed in a live action, run-and-gun types of shoot, you probably don't use them at the same time. Well expect for something like a dolly zoom, in that case, the touch focus may prove a better use.

So I'm guessing that the fixed Scarlet will have something of quick access switch near the lens to flip between those 3 functions. So instead of reaching for the next ring, you'd just keep you hand on the one ring and nudge a button with a thumb or something of the sort.
 
There are all sorts of programmable control buttons on the side handle, including a rocker switch that can be programmed for zoom control. I think most people will be able to find a workable combination one way or another.
One question I would like to ask: Is there a mode to program auto iris for set and lock? This was my preferred ENG camera mode. Push a single button to get an auto iris setting that locks on release so it doesn't change unless you want it to with a +/- comp adjustment on a rocker or two more buttons.
Most ENG cameras I have used had zoom on a proportional rocker switch, focused manually with a ring, and set iris with a button or two. But I normally set exposure base on incident light levels and don't change it during a shot, or typically even for an entire scene unless source levels shift significantly.
 
I think the single ring is to allow them to make it as small as possible. It's TINY for an 8x zoom. Many 16mm and 2/3 zooms are quite long. The small lens allows the camera to be light and well balanced.
 
The great thing is the flexibility, programmability and multitude of options afforded by the programmable buttons, multiple dials, rocker, and lens ring.

We'll probably all need to experiment with different combinations to achieve the right balance of accessibility, speed, steadinesss while adjusting, and balance. These would differ depending on background (is your muscle memory tuned to DSLR or B4), and camera setup, and shooting situation.

As far as a wishlist:

User control presets that can be saved and named, e.g rungun, tripod, studio, stills, etc.

+1 on the auto-iris press and lock on release

AF full zoom-in press and lock on release
 
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I think that determining the ergonomic nature of the Fixed scarlet will just have to wait until it's out, and people can see how the lens functions with the camera, redmote, redmote pro, and/or the sidehandle. Then we'll know.

Fortunately, if you don't like it, can't some ENG zooms be used with the 2/3" Interchangeable?
 
Hopefully we'll all have some time to test out Scarlet's ergonomics at the booth this year.
 
This single ring feature is what made up my mind to get the interchangable as opposed to the fixed.

Maybe I'm stuck in my ways but I can't see the single ring working for easily doco/events. (and I hate trying to rack focus with those infintely spinning rings)
 
Well most of the moving elements of the zoom are housed inside the Scarlet body so there really is no place to put a ring for that. Except for fully manual film camera lenses I don't remember ever turning rings by hand for anything but focus even when there were rings on the lens. Lens controls on the video cams have been servo switches of one kind or another.
 
Shouldn't be the case with Scarlet's B4 compared to the typical B4 to PL adapter. No magnification is needed for Scarlet, just an optical flat to correct for CA. Probably more than a typical dumb mount, but it shouldn't be $3-4k.
I guess it depends on whether it will support electronic lens controls too.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
Of course, a good 2/3" B4 mount zoom usually costs at least twice what the Scarlet Fixed does...
Click to expand...

If not more.

My thinking was that if people were upset with the ergonomics of Scarlet because they were used to their own B4 zoom...they should just be able to use that same zoom on an Interchangeable and overcome those issues pretty simply.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
Too right

And that's only 6.5x (T1.9 though!)
Click to expand...

I think we should wait for some tests with the Fixie, before saying that the Zeiss Digizoom is'nt that good at all for it's price:) We can compare all the technical specs, but we can't compare sharpness, or optical quality at all.
Anyway, you are all right about the Fixed Scarlet being a gift for this price, I just don't want to bash amazing things like the Zeiss lenses.

I think the biggest advance of the fixed is that if you buy the interchangeable, you should buy a set of lenses of the same brand. Even then, there's a slight chance that they're not perfectly color matched...This won't happen to the fixed, you would get the same colors at the wide end, or the tele end. This is a true life-saver for color grading.
 
Laco Gaal said:
I think we should wait for some tests with the Fixie, before saying that the Zeiss Digizoom is'nt that good at all for it's price:) We can compare all the technical specs, but we can't compare sharpness, or optical quality at all.
Anyway, you are all right about the Fixed Scarlet being a gift for this price, I just don't want to bash amazing things like the Zeiss lenses.

I think the biggest advance of the fixed is that if you buy the interchangeable, you should buy a set of lenses of the same brand. Even then, there's a slight chance that they're not perfectly color matched...This won't happen to the fixed, you would get the same colors at the wide end, or the tele end. This is a true life-saver for color grading.
Click to expand...

Hey Laco, are you getting the 8x first, and then Epic-S?
 
Patrik Kisucky said:
Hey Laco, are you getting the 8x first, and then Epic-S?
Click to expand...
I would love to have the fixed this year, and the interchangeable later on (to attach some of my currently owned Canon/Nikon lenses for telephoto use, and to buy a very wide RED MiniPrime). That's what I love in the modular system, I would only have to buy the interchangeable, or the Epic-S brain, everything else is compatible.

But I'm just a student, so even the Fixie isn't easy to buy (and I'm not an American, so I'll have to add tax+duties (27%!), and shipping too.
I need to start saving yesterday, and start earning money right now:)
 
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