8mm film advice

[Stephen Pruitt]

Great work, Mark and Larry!

This is exactly the look I'm after for our film. And being a bit on the OCD side of things, I definitely don't want to try to get this effect digitally. I want it REAL.



This is going to be exciting!

So I should be using Ektachrome reversal film??? A sepia filter was mentioned above. What strength would that be to give me that old-style look?

Thanks again, gents!

Stephen

 

[Mark Phelan]

Great stuff, Mark. Looks perfectly real. Funny narration and music. Spot on.

Thanks, Doug.

I think I know how to eliminate flicker without worrying about syncing the two devices: shoot the RED with a 270° shutter.

This was exactly what David and I were discussing. He suggested 360º and I tried it. But it didn't seem to have much of an effect one way or the other, but I am in complete agreement with his idea. Thinking like you, I was surmising because the two frame rates were different, it was causing the flicker. It very well may have contributed to it, but I was having just as much success with 180º. What is not really considered is consistency of frame rate in the 8mm camera and projector. Most cameras back then were mechanical as is the Bell and Howell I purchased. When watching the footage, it's not consistently running at 18fps, it might speed up a tad or slow down a bit. So all the calculating in the world wouldn't be able to fix that sort of thing. So I tweaked the projector to what was giving the best results. I have no earthly clue as to what the final speed wound up being.

So it worked fine, and I didn't need to monkey with it at all in post. It is what it is, imperfect, soft focus, whacky colors (mainly due to film that went out of date in the '70's), herky-jerky motion, and completely wonderful.

If you find some Ektachrome, it's going to have a very different look than the Kodachrome did. For starters it'll be much cooler, bluish. But if you find old stuff like I did, all bets are off as to what you'll get, and that's part of the charm and fun.

My daughter has already lay claim to the Revere projector when I keel over. I even found replacement bulbs for both projectors, for use after the apocalypse when our digital cameras won't work anymore because of the EMPs. I'll be ready!

 

[Larry Kelly]

Just to be clear. Although I've been lucky enough to work with these two talented guys as grip on a number of projects, I was not lucky enough to work on the video I linked to this thread. I'm just a big fan of their work and particularly the michael rault film.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Last question: I want to project the film shoot on a wall and film that with our REDs at 23.976. What issues am I likely to encounter, and will those issues add to the "old" feel of the found footie?

I would shoot the scene with green screen (and registration points), and then composite it all in later in VFX. Believe me, you can do this very fast and cheap, provided it's lit reasonably well. This is also how they did it in the movie Super 8, including having the characters walk in front of the image and cast shadows on the projected "film" image.

I think it's a very bad idea to try to project real film in the scene because a) the noise level of the projector will be ridiculous and destroy the dialogue, b) the flicker will be inconsistent and distracting, and c) the film won't hold up well when you have to replay it over and over and over again for the scene. If the actors just have to "imagine" the image on screen, you can make it consistent, realistic, the dialogue will be good, and it won't beat the hell out of the film over a period of hours.

To my eye, this looks damn near exactly like bad Super 8mm home movies, and it was shot on an iPhone and degraded with looks in AfterEffects:

 

[Mark Phelan]

Great suggestions gentlemen! I'm definitely looking for that crappy home movie look. And to your point, Florian, I'm definitely not going to go digital, primarily because I really need the reel of "old" film as an on-screen prop.

I definitely plan to blow the heck out of the highlights.

Thanks again!

Stephen

Another quick thought as you plan. Shooting back then was different than it is today. As was mentioned before, 8mm and Super8 were both sold on three minute reels. It was actually 16mm film that was flipped halfway through the shooting process, so you got three minutes per side to capture whatever it is you were shooting. This fact alone contributed to the herky-jerky motion because you were very cognizant of the fact that you were always close to the end, so you raced to "get it all in". Bear that in mind.

Also, the lighting used was insanely bad. We had a light bar that the camera attached to and it held four spotlights. This greatly contributed to the blown highlights when indoors as well as everyone squinting because they literally were being blinded by the light. If you're going to get an old camera, see if you can find an old light bar too. It'll be fun and you won't have to think so much about how to recreate what it was like, as you'll simply be doing it. Here's one on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-ARR...736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d22538d10

 

[D Fuller]

Also, the lighting used was insanely bad. We had a light bar that the camera attached to and it held four spotlights. This greatly contributed to the blown highlights when indoors as well as everyone squinting because they literally were being blinded by the light. If you're going to get an old camera, see if you can find an old light bar too. It'll be fun and you won't have to think so much about how to recreate what it was like, as you'll simply be doing it. Here's one on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-ARR...736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d22538d10

Oh yes, the light bar... What would Christmas morning have been without it?

 

[Marc Wielage]

Also, the lighting used was insanely bad. We had a light bar that the camera attached to and it held four spotlights.

I agree that "bad home movie lighting" is a good idea, but I still don't think it's a good idea to clip out the highlights in photography. If you decide later you want that effect, do it in post where it's more controllable and predicable.