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8mm film advice

Stephen Pruitt

Stephen Pruitt

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Hi there. . .

I'm starting to make a few props for our third feature (which will be shot on our RED), but one of the crucial props is a reel of home shot 8mm film. This reel of film was supposed to have been shot in 1970.

What film and processing choices would you recommend for this look? The film will be shown projected on a wall.

I have NEVER shot film before, so this will be a first!

Thanks so much!

Stephen
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
Hi there. . .

I'm starting to make a few props for our third feature (which will be shot on our RED), but one of the crucial props is a reel of home shot 8mm film. This reel of film was supposed to have been shot in 1970.

What film and processing choices would you recommend for this look? The film will be shown projected on a wall.

I have NEVER shot film before, so this will be a first!

Thanks so much!

Stephen
Click to expand...

Hi Stephen,

I would suggest buying or hiring a Super 8mm camera. Most take a 3 minute cartridge. (this can also be adapted with a larger cartridge on some cameras). The super 8mm film cartridges are still for sale and processing is available. The footage could then be projected onto the wall (via a super 8mm projector) in real time within your film.

Using Super 8mm will give you an authentic look, that you can 'clip' and 'flare' while you shoot.

Here is a link to a company in Australia that sells Super 8mm cartridges and also can arrange processing.

http://www.dvdinfinity.com.au/super_8.htm

I imagine there is somewhere closer to where you live that also sells and processes Super 8mm>

Joe
 
Great! Are there various film types and apparently there are various processing types. Which ones are likely to give me the vintage early 1970s look I'm after?

Thanks!
 
None of the film you would buy today will give you an early 70s look without a color-correction session. If you're going to project the 8mm, you can't color correct, because you won't be able to print back to the film. But there are some things you can do to move in that direction.
- you will be shooting reversal film, so exposure will be very touchy compared to your Red, but the truth is that most home movies were not perfectly exposed. Bright sun tended to be a bit over-exposed. And as film often faded over time, overexposed highlights would look kind of right.
- there was a bit of warmth to the blacks in a lot of film from that era, so a bit of warming filter like tobacco or sepia would be appropriate.
- consider the possibility of correcting the projected image separately from the rest of the scene with a power window. Depending on how you shoot, that might be quite easy, and would increase your control of the look a great deal.

That's all I can think of for now. Sounds like fun!
 
Great suggestions gentlemen! I'm definitely looking for that crappy home movie look. And to your point, Florian, I'm definitely not going to go digital, primarily because I really need the reel of "old" film as an on-screen prop.

I definitely plan to blow the heck out of the highlights.

Thanks again!

Stephen
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
Great suggestions gentlemen! I'm definitely looking for that crappy home movie look. And to your point, Florian, I'm definitely not going to go digital, primarily because I really need the reel of "old" film as an on-screen prop. I definitely plan to blow the heck out of the highlights.
Click to expand...
I actually think you can get a better faux "Super 8" look for a feature by shooting on 16mm. 16mm is much easier to get developed, the equipment is widely available cheap, you can shoot sync sound with it, you can still get several different negative stocks, and the lenses are fantastic. And you can always degrade the footage in post to give it a little more of an unstable "Super 8" look.

I do not agree with blowing out the highlights. I did at least 10 or 12 fairly decent-budgeted Super 8mm commercials and music videos in the 1980s and we made everything look more-or-less normal. Home movies can look good, not necessarily blown-out and extreme. The grain kind of takes care of itself, but you'll have to expect some kind of grain management to at least keep the grain level consistent throughout every take, exposure, and lighting change.

I do remember one commercial (one piece of a fairly big-budget music video) where we put up the Super 8mm and scanned it on a normal Mark IIIC Rank, and the client frowned and said, "it looks too clean! It looks kind of like bad 16mm, not Super 8!" So we wound up dropping the tube current to make the system very, very noisy. Then they were happy.

It's always better to start with clean footage and degrade it with a degree of control, rather than starting with horrible footage and trying desperately to salvage it. Note that you can always grab a reel of Super 8 and a projector somewhere, so the shots in the movie don't necessarily have to be from the actual reel of Super 8. That's also what J.J. Abrams did in his movie Super 8​ not too long ago.
 
Hi Stephen,

Super 8 will organically give you a 70s feel as the camera rolls at 18 frames a second. Also worth considering, is that people shooting Super 8, tended to shoot very short grabs rather than long takes because each cartridge only held 3 minutes of film. I imagine if you shoot or edit with that in mind you will add to the 70s feel that you are looking for.

Joe
 
Pro 8mm in Burbank is the company that will have all the answers for you.
They have been in the 8mm business since 1971.
http://www.pro8mm.com/story.php

They sell and rent super 8mm cameras.....and sell and develop and
scan both super 8mm and super 16mm negative and reversal stock.

Also check out the bio-movie The Life and Death of Peter Sellers as the 16mm
home movies Sellers shot play a big part in the movie...it was nominated for ASC award also.

http://www.pro8mm.com/index.php
https://www.pro8mm.com/Merchant5/me...04bc6b446fb&Screen=SFNT&Order=0&Store_Code=01





Super 8mm cameras for purchase


classic_web2.jpg


special edition of the legendary Beaulieu 4008 rebuilt to surpass original factory specs
and transformed by Pro8mm into the Classic Pro in a custom candy red finish.:
 
This is all really helpful! I knew you guys would have the answers.

Thanks so much!

Last question: I want to project the film shoot on a wall and film that with our REDs at 23.976. What issues am I likely to encounter, and will those issues add to the "old" feel of the found footie?

Thanks!
 
Warning : this is a serious post!

If you don't have access to film/laboratory/film projector...

You even can shoot it with the Dragon and Pinhole. The look is close if you push the iso to the max and don't callibrate the blackshade right.

The pinhole gives you the infinity focus wich is great and the noise get's you close to the 8mm look. You need sunlight to get saturated colors.

Pat
 
Ah, yes, Patrick! The days of my pinhole RED!

When we got ol' "Lewis" back in early 2008, we had no PL glass and no Canon or Nikon mount. (We went Nikon at that time. Now we're Canon.) So, just to play around, we turned "Lewis" into a pinhole RED. It was the only way we could shoot anything! And, you're right, the look is really close to what I'm after! BUT, I do need the 8mm film to run through a projector for this scene in the film. But GREAT suggestion!

Thanks!

Stephen
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
This is all really helpful! I knew you guys would have the answers.

Thanks so much!

Last question: I want to project the film shoot on a wall and film that with our REDs at 23.976. What issues am I likely to encounter, and will those issues add to the "old" feel of the found footie?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
You will have to decide how to deal with the flicker that comes from the difference in frame rates. As has been mentioned, normal for 8mm is 18fps. That will flicker pretty severely when you shoot it at 23.97. So you have to make some choices:
1. You can decide that you like it that way.
2. You can shoot and project at 24fps. Or with a varispeed projector come close to 23.97.
3. You can shoot and project at 12fps, which will do two things: it will decrease the apparent framerate-mismatch artifacts, and it will increase the natural flicker of the film image. You might find you like the effect, as it enhances the old-film feel.
4. You can shoot normal 18fps and slow the projection to 12fps for a moderate slo-mo effect.

You will really need to do some testing here to find out what look you like. I'm sure there are other combinations I haven't thought of that you can find as well.

Something that would concern me a lot if I were doing this is to ensure that I had more than one copy of the hero roll of film. Super-8 film is fairly fragile, and Super-8 projectors can be rough on it (get a good one and have it serviced before you start). You can always splice a broken film, and it might even contribute to the look you want, but it's a significant risk if the film depends on it.
 
Leicina RT1 Super 8 runs at 25 frames per second and the Nizo 801 can run at 24 frames per second. Both are very nice cameras - I think the lens on the Leicina made for better pictures mind. Both can run at 54 frames per second also.
Hope that helps.
 
I don't have any useful suggestions but I do have a great example of a music video shot on film then processed and hand distressed then projected on a wall and recorded on red one by Mike Mclaughlin and Blake McWilliam. I love the look, it made the band look very cool.
http://youtu.be/3T0hRsveZ3s
 
Larry Kelly said:
I don't have any useful suggestions but I do have a great example of a music video shot on film then processed and hand distressed then projected on a wall and recorded on red one by Mike Mclaughlin and Blake McWilliam. I love the look, it made the band look very cool.
http://youtu.be/3T0hRsveZ3s
Click to expand...

That's a great look Larry. Was it shot on super 16mm and can you describe what was done to 'distress' the footage?
Joe
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
This is all really helpful! I knew you guys would have the answers.

Thanks so much!

Last question: I want to project the film shoot on a wall and film that with our REDs at 23.976. What issues am I likely to encounter, and will those issues add to the "old" feel of the found footie?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Stephen,

I did the exact thing you are wanting to do for a film I produced back in 2010, "Scouting The Past". I bought a Bell and Howell 8mm camera and two projectors, an old Bell and Howell like we had when I was young and a Revere 8. An aside, the camera cost a whopping $8.00 on ebay and was in pristine condition, I mean brand new. Even had the warranty card and a free offer for a roll of film when it became available in 1962.

The Revere projector was a big help because it has a variable speed motor that allowed me to tweak the flicker. Never totally got rid of it because the frame rates are different, but it actually added authenticity to the project. I shot it with my R1 and even got some tips from David Mullen.

I was able to find some old Kodachrome stock and shot with it and it still developed! Used Dwayne's Photo, www.dwaynesphoto.com in Kansas. BUT, they don't develop Kodachrome anymore. I just happened to be one of the very last folks that they developed Kodachrome for in 2010. That is very sad, what a great film stock. However, the good news is they still develop Ektachrome (E6) so see about getting some on ebay or elsewhere and have at it.

Here's a clip from the project that shows some 8mm footage I telecined using the Revere 8 /RED One combo. You might even recognize the Eagle Scout who did the voiceover for it: https://vimeo.com/101032784

And here's the film offer for when the film stock becomes available in 1962.

Freefilm_zpsb94c50ca.jpeg


Freefilm1_zpsf1ace251.jpeg
 
I think I know how to eliminate flicker without worrying about syncing the two devices: shoot the RED with a 270° shutter.

I totally love Super 8. If only I had gotten off my lazy butt and got a job in the early '90s, I would have shot a lot more of it (I am nostalgic for the '90s and wish that I had documented my environment more). I even found some home movies from the early '70s in an op-shop. Mostly stuff in Victoria.
 
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