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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

8k Sensor Crop and high frame rates

J

Jesse Rambis

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Hi Everyone, I wanted to get a bit of input to see if anyone else had the same concerns regarding sensor cropping on lower resolutions (for high frame rate shooting) with these new 8k sensors. For example, on our MX to shoot 4k HD, it would only be a crop factor of ~1.31. Now on our Dragon to shoot 4k HD it would be a crop factor of ~1.45. For reference at 2k HD the MX was ~2.63 while the Dragon is ~2.93.

With the upcoming 8k sensors it is going to be a large crop just to shoot in 4k, it seems like 2k won't even be a possibility (for any type of wider shots). These huge crops would pretty much render most of our lenses useless except for our wide angle lenses for any high frame rate work. Does Red have any plans to (or is it even possible) to change how the camera adjusts to lower resolutions? Is it possible to do something like re-scale the image on the sensor so there is no crop factor through the different resolutions?
 
Scaled raw would be awesome. But then it's not technically raw someone will say.
 
PatrickFaith said:
One thing I'd like but this could be totally not doable, is cropping the side would have the same nice fps improvement as vertical cropping. For vfx plates and anamorphics I need to often be at 1.5 aspect ratio, but I don't get the higher fps like I do at the 2.4 aspect ratio crop.
Click to expand...

Sadly, I'm pretty sure this is a fundamental read-reset interval issue that is directly tied to vertical pixel count. :-(

Cheers - #19
 
With the DSMC2 cameras you can also record ProRes which is from the full sensor. No RAW but a way to get 4k (from the Carbon Fibers) or 2k from everything else
 
to do prores at 4K from 8k sensor is a lot of computation (custom chips?) - does it use 'pixel binning'? Pixel binning would also allow raw output with just selection of which 4K pixels. Not sure of the resulting quality - many people slam pixel binning. Interpolation would be pretty amazing - not sure what custom chipset would be required to do in real time.
 
Chris Kennedy said:
With the DSMC2 cameras you can also record ProRes which is from the full sensor. No RAW but a way to get 4k (from the Carbon Fibers) or 2k from everything else
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on this? So with the new weapon cameras if recording ProRes there is no sensor cropping at the various resolutions?
 
The native recording format is independent of the ProRes flavor you select. For example, you could choose 5K as your capture format and then scale to 2K ProRes, etc.

BTW, RED does not speak "pixel binning" - scaling uses interpolated data from all active photo-sites captured. The scaling of 8K native format to 4K ProRes on the fly would seem to be a particularly challenging real time operation - but AFAIK that's what it does.

Cheers - #19
 
I had no idea, that is a pretty great feature of the weapon... ProRes 4K up to 120fps with no cropping, seems enticing.
 
I actually spoke with Red Support today... I had to send my camera in and asked them to confirm this when I was on the phone. I also checked it on the tech specs of the weapon to triple confirm.
 
As per the tech specs it is 120fps in 2K.
422 HQ, 422 and 422 LT at 4K (4096 × 2160) up to 29.97 fps
4444 XQ and 4444 at 2K (2048 × 1080) up to 120 fps
422 HQ, 422 and 422 LT at 2K (2048 × 1080) up to 120 fps
 
Jesse Rambis said:
I had no idea, that is a pretty great feature of the weapon... ProRes 4K up to 120fps with no cropping, seems enticing.
Click to expand...


ProRes is still bound by the sensor limitations. e.g. you won't get to use the full 8K frame of the sensor at 120fps. The camera will stop you from using modes it does not support.
 
Whoops, I meant 2k for 120fps. :thumbsup:

Hmm... He never mentioned that during the phone call. So, if the current weapon can record 6k at 75fps full frame, then your ProRes could only be 75fps as well?
 
Here is a thread from facebook: As per Michael you could do 4K 120fps and 2K 240fps from Full VV aperture(No crop) on DXL.
Full_VV_Aperture.png
 
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This would only be with the Weapon VV though, correct?
 
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