6K Gemini?

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

So is the the dynamic range and highlight roll off in gemeni in standard mode equivalent to dragon with equivalent OLPF? I know it clips a stop sooner in low light mode. But the range, clipping, and rolloff, more similar to helium or dragon? I personally am a bigger fan of dsmc2 dragon than helium. And I've shot a lot of red.

Just confirmed against tests I saw on reduser and gemini does seem to have 2/3-stop more highlights than monstro/dragon. And yes white clip is exactly 2 stops lower in low light mode than standard. Also tested Gemini and helium side by side and the comparison of shadow and high iso detail with white clip normalized is very eye opening. Very consistent color rendition and low noise compared to helium's bright green hard clipped shadows.

Seems like the highlights are closer to Alexa and overall range is close to Alexa/monstro. Will be analyzing my high iso tests against my a7s2 today...

 

[Patrick Tresch]

So is the the dynamic range and highlight roll off in gemeni in standard mode equivalent to dragon with equivalent OLPF? I know it clips a stop sooner in low light mode. But the range, clipping, and rolloff, more similar to helium or dragon? I personally am a bigger fan of dsmc2 dragon than helium. And I've shot a lot of red.

+1 for DSMC2 Dragon. I love this sensor. But I would also love to have a S35mm cutout from the Monstro sensor. Gemini has this tad of lack of resolution that I'm not used to it... And in Luigis's test Monstro is really the best all arounder. (No wonder Panavision choose this sensor).

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

Just confirmed against tests I saw on reduser and gemini does seem to have 2/3-stop more highlights than monstro/dragon. And yes white clip is exactly 2 stops lower in low light mode than standard. Also tested Gemini and helium side by side and the comparison of shadow and high iso detail with white clip normalized is very eye opening. Very consistent color rendition and low noise compared to helium's bright green hard clipped shadows.

Seems like the highlights are closer to Alexa and overall range is close to Alexa/monstro. Will be analyzing my high iso tests against my a7s2 today...

Wait wait wait. More highlight retention than monstro?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

While I am all up for a FF and BIGGER Sensor like 70mm equivalent Bigger, we must keep in mind that very many in the industry will not want to move away form s35 sized sensor, not just yet, too many fantastic lenses that only cover that format, and yet not enough FF or bigger glass to please all flavors.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Just confirmed against tests I saw on reduser and gemini does seem to have 2/3-stop more highlights than monstro/dragon. And yes white clip is exactly 2 stops lower in low light mode than standard. Also tested Gemini and helium side by side and the comparison of shadow and high iso detail with white clip normalized is very eye opening. Very consistent color rendition and low noise compared to helium's bright green hard clipped shadows.

Did you compare them with same ISO rating ?

I'm interested at Gemini DR handling and noise in standard mode rated at 1600 vs others at 800.
Alexa included.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Wait wait wait. More highlight retention than monstro?

Yes that's my understanding. Luigi tested this in his thread as well and found about 2/3 stops later absolute white clip on gemini standrard mode. My quick test seemed to confirm this, just pointed both cameras at lights and closed down until the fluorescents in the shot didnt turn on the stop lights at all and ended up about 1/2-2/3 stops more open on Gemini than the Monstro (quick test with different lenses so grain of salt required). And then Gemini low light is pretty comparable to Monstro sensitivity if maybe a bit cleaner looking at Luigi's tests. But it seems like one good way of thinking about it is Monstro falls right in between Gemini Standard and low light. One stop of extra DR and lots of extra resolution, but gemini low light might have a half stop edge in the shadows and standard a half stop edge in the highlights.

Another interesting test I did was set all the cameras to the same target temperature in the same environment and see how fast the fans needed to run to maintain. Basically in that particular environment Gemini settled at 32%, Helium 48%, and Monstro 51%. Not an extensive test, but good to know Gemini seems to require less cooling and therefore likely lower fan noise. That said I tested only while monitoring, not recording, and didn't assess how different sensors do at different target temperatures. Perhaps Gemini needs lower temperatures as well which would then require higher fan speeds.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

5K love

5K love

While I am all up for a FF and BIGGER Sensor like 70mm equivalent Bigger, we must keep in mind that very many in the industry will not want to move away form s35 sized sensor, not just yet, too many fantastic lenses that only cover that format, and yet not enough FF or bigger glass to please all flavors.

We're on the same page Ketch. Moreover, I could easily see a scenario where a 6K cut would have people griping about lens coverage issues that forced them back to a "measly" 5K.

FWIW, if Monstro didn't exist, I could see the argument for a 6K Gemini cut to reach the nominal 36mm width of FF35 for those who desire it while still offering a 4.5 or 5K window for S35 lensing.

BTW, the other thing we don't know is what impact going to 6K would have on chip yield percentage, and, by extension, cost. Would a standard RED lens mount, PL or EF, be large enough for a 6K, 6 micron pitch target? Or would you need the larger bore mounts required for VV?

IMHO, RED made the right choice with a 5K cut of a 6 micron pitch sensor. It kept the cost down, puts less demand on post processing, allows pretty serious over cranking without windowing, less focus precision required than a FF or VV target and still has plenty of resolution for over 90% of typical projects.

Cheers - #19

 

[Nick Gardner]

6K Gemini?

I accidentally walked in on a group of focus pullers sharpening machetes a preparing torches..........