Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

6k camera coming soon!

G

g3nov3s3

Active member
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
35
Reaction score
0
Points
0
But not from Red.
The Aaton Penelope will be able to be upgraded with a Digimag that will incorporate a 6k sensor.
 
It looks sweet. Haven't used AATON in a long time, except for occasional multicam shoots with minima's, but that's not 35.

This is good, competition is always healthy. I just hope that RED listens to all the suggestions on EPIC, especially the ones that involves ergonomics and placement of menu panel :wink: .

Fredrik
 
The idea to have both is tempting.

Epic and Aaton Penelope are not in the same realm though. Penelope won't have an EVF and will be aimed even more for the cine-folks. Additionally it will cost probably at least double of that what RED will charge for Epic.

Aaton was always champion in ergonomics and Arris 235 is also a great example of how a heandheld camera should look like. EPICs current design is a letdown in this regard IMHO.

Hans
 
This is how Epic should be!You should be able to upgrade different parts of the camera yourself.
You can buy the Penelope now and use regular film magazines to shoot.
In 2009 they will release the 6k Digimag and the camera becomes digital! Brilliant, because you can do the conversion yourself without much hassle.
And in the future, who knows....maybe they will release even more advanced Digimags.
 
g3nov3s3 said:
This is how Epic should be!You should be able to upgrade different parts of the camera yourself.
You can buy the Penelope now and use regular film magazines to shoot.
In 2009 they will release the 6k Digimag and the camera becomes digital! Brilliant, because you can do the conversion yourself without much hassle.
And in the future, who knows....maybe they will release even more advanced Digimags.
Click to expand...

Theory: What you said.

Reality: The concept of a "digital back" for a motion picture film camera has been tried before and was a failure in the marketplace. Joe Dunton did it with a 16SR, and Arri tried it with the early prototypes of the D20. It's one of those things that sounds good, but forces enough compromises for both modes that it's just not worth the trouble compared to purpose built designs.

Besides, film shooters want film cameras. And electronic shooters want digital cameras. Both want them ergonomically designed, and full featured. And those that shoot both usually want both, not a mixed mode device.
 
I hate to state "what should be obvious by now," but I highly, highly doubt much will be done on film by 2013, anyway. Just as Kodak expected the demise of film cameras to be a slow decline (but instead turned out to be sharp cliff), I will bet right now that less than half of all Hollywood features will be using film in 2011 and virtually none will be using film by 2013.

There is, therefore, absolutely no reason for the compromises inherent in a switchable back.

Stephen
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
I hate to state "what should be obvious by now," but I highly, highly doubt much will be done on film by 2013, anyway. Just as Kodak expected the demise of film cameras to be a slow decline (but instead turned out to be sharp cliff), I will bet right now that less than half of all Hollywood features will be using film in 2011 and virtually none will be using film by 2013.

There is, therefore, absolutely no reason for the compromises inherent in a switchable back.

Stephen
Click to expand...

Well we'll see by 2011 which half it will be. There is plenty of lower budget studio features shooting digital, but on the higher end, it's only been a handful.

Cost not being a determining factor, what is the incentive for a big budget feature to use a digital cinema camera in 2011?

I don't mean just 4k plus resolution and nothing having to deal with film developing and scanning. These costs would not be an issue for these big budget films.

I would expect 4k DIs to be much more common, with a few 6k/8k DIs being touted for bragging rights.

Digital cinema cameras would have to do what film cameras just can't, even with a DI.

I personally can't wait to find out what it is.
 
The point that is mainly missed is (at least in my opinion), that even if the top productions have deep pockets now because film stock + associated costs are no big deal, this is going to change when a majority of tiny, small and middle sized productions switch to digital shooting, because subsequently THAT is going to cause prices to increase for lab, filmstock and so on, even for big productions.
Super 8, for example, was a common format for hobby-shooters, labs were available everywhere and processing was included in the cassette`s price (approx. 6 Euro). Right now it is 12,50 Euro for developing, plus another 12,50 for a cassette - that`s 25 Euro for a 3 Minute load and a four times increase in price! I believe something similar will happen with 16 & 35mm.
 
mmost said:
Theory: What you said.

Reality: The concept of a "digital back" for a motion picture film camera has been tried before and was a failure in the marketplace. Joe Dunton did it with a 16SR, and Arri tried it with the early prototypes of the D20.
Click to expand...

Wasn't it just to early of a market? Joe Dunton's idea of the digital mag has been hanging around since stone-age.

I don't think AATON releases a statement like that without the knowledge to back it up, at least I hope not :unsure:


Fredrik
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
I hate to state "what should be obvious by now," but I highly, highly doubt much will be done on film by 2013, anyway. Just as Kodak expected the demise of film cameras to be a slow decline (but instead turned out to be sharp cliff), I will bet right now that less than half of all Hollywood features will be using film in 2011 and virtually none will be using film by 2013.

There is, therefore, absolutely no reason for the compromises inherent in a switchable back.

Stephen
Click to expand...

Except for a few years of both (possibly upgradeable during the time, since it's only a digital back) and an optical viewfinder :weight_lift:

MHO

Fredrik
 
This sounds very weird:

Penelope can be changed from a film camera to a digital camera in less than a minute. It's simply a matter of removing the film magazine and replacing it with a Digi Mag.
Click to expand...

I mean... don't you also have to install a digital sensor to make it a digital camera? Or is the digital sensor attached to the Digi Mag?
 
big budget films will stop shooting film once digital projectors are the norm in movie theatres. 2011 sounds about right for half. 2013 sounds about right for most. by 2020 film will be a relic.

Why would they stop shooting film? well, because digital will eventually not only save them on the film budget, but it will save them on time. (no reloads, switch to high speed whenever they like with no film/reload time penalties, no scratched negs, etc. etc.). Moving pictures will follow a similar path to stills. There is simply no doubt about this. Look at history to predict the future. How many high end stills people 10 years ago thought that by now, MOST stills shoots would be done digitally, even for billboards? There were of course, those who said 'never'. I bet those same photographers are now shooting digital for many high end paying gigs.

The scales still now favour film over digital for moving pictures for big budgets (reliability, predictability, etc.) but soon these scales will flip. It will be harder, and more expensive, to shoot film in 2013, and easier, and more predictable to shoot digital. Once these scales tip (and we are at the start of the 'tipping point' right now), film will quickly become an artistic decision only, and the majority of features (even high budgets) will make the switch to digital.
 
I wouldn't sing the demise of aaton's penelope right now. They are making cameras forever and surely will deliver a great solution. I just hope they make the digimag easier to load than their film magazines.
 
Aaton is an excellent company, they are love cameras.
Also their soundgear is excellent.
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
I hate to state "what should be obvious by now," but I highly, highly doubt much will be done on film by 2013, anyway. Just as Kodak expected the demise of film cameras to be a slow decline (but instead turned out to be sharp cliff), I will bet right now that less than half of all Hollywood features will be using film in 2011 and virtually none will be using film by 2013.

There is, therefore, absolutely no reason for the compromises inherent in a switchable back.

Stephen
Click to expand...

Hi Stephen,
The Aaton Penolope also shoots 2 perf 35mm film, in 2.40:1 or 1.85:1 aspect ratio using
half the amount of film, processing, telecine or scanning. if anything a camera like this wouild tend to extend the natural life of film.
If Kodak stops making film Fuji will be jumping for joy as they plan to be the last man standing and keep on making it for decades.
Massive film lab facilities have been recently built in China and countries like Russia and India still shoot tons of film. Not to mention the Middle East
other Asian countries Korea , Indonesia, the list goes on.

So when the French get back from lunch and finish Penolpe they will have a
huge market for her and I'm told she will be priced to compete in all the
above markets as many of her components are in fact plastic.
Plastic Penelope,I dont know how to say tghata in frencha.
Cheers Mezmo
 
SJD said:
I think calling a camera Penelope sounds wierd.....
Click to expand...
I think it's the name of the cat they put on the designers shoulder to get
an ergonomic profile for the first LTR 16mm camera.
Could be wrong here, but it sounds good huh.
Mezmo
 
Who on earth told you that the Penelope would be made out of plastic?!? If anyone wants to check her out, Abel will have the camera in our booth at CineGear next week. We'll also have a number of RED-related toys. Come by and say "hi."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top