6 x 4.5 or 6 x7 lens for Weapon 8k?

[Elsie N]

I'm hoping to tap in to the vast knowledge base on REDuser that I'm sure includes some Medium Format lens owner/users.

My point of query is whether it is best to purchase Mamiya 645 glass or the larger sized format (and still somewhat fast) Pentax/Takumar 67 lenses.

Phil mentioned in another thread that someone would get the crazy idea of shooting a movie in a square format. Not saying I would do that, but it got me to wondering if the 6x7 lens would offer more of a square view to frame from rather than a 16 x 9 view, as an example.

Your thoughts?

 

[Michael Tiemann]

[...]
Phil mentioned in another thread that someone would get the crazy idea of shooting a movie in a square format. Not saying I would do that, but it got me to wondering if the 6x7 lens would offer more of a square view to frame from rather than a 16 x 9 view, as an example.

Your thoughts?

A 6x7 or 6x6 lens won't make Weapon any more square than a good FF35 lens. What will change the game would be a 2:1 anamorphic squeeze with a big image circle rotated 90 degrees. When desqueezed the short vertical dimension of the Dragon sensor will be almost as wide as the horizontal direction.

 

[Elsie N]

Medium format lenses will work on Red Weapon 8K, I have three pentax 67 lenses and currently shoot many photos on the system. I think Red made a Pentax 67 mount for a special customer once. You can also buy pentax 67 mount adapters to Canon. I believe you won't be able to tell a difference on framing. Full frame lenses are meant for images taller than 16:9, and 6x7 will definitely overshadow the window. But it will not give you a more square frame until you reach the 68mmx56mm size. Hope I was able to help you. I recomkmend the 75mm 2.8, 105mm2.4, and 165mm 2.8 lenses for future purchase

Thanks Nick, I've found a M42 adapter to PL, but for the bayonet Pentax I had to go with a Pentax P-K mount to Nikon. Same for the Mamiya 645 mount to Nikon. It's good to hear those kinds of adapters do work.

I've read that the Mamiya 645 normal lens is the 80 mm. Not sure what it is for the Pentax 67. Also read that Medium Format lenses reduce by about half... that is, a 200 mm becomes equivalent to a 100 mm or so. Can you confirm that? Probably those numbers were for Medium Format on a DSLR.

A 6x7 or 6x6 lens won't make Weapon any more square than a good FF35 lens. What will change the game would be a 2:1 anamorphic squeeze with a big image circle rotated 90 degrees. When desqueezed the short vertical dimension of the Dragon sensor will be almost as wide as the horizontal direction.

HEH! Don't know what I was thinking... I was picturing an image circle while giving no thought to the sensor. '-)

 

[Guidofilippi]

B2PRO offered for sale or rental a Pentax 67 to PL adapter... there was a thread by Jarred on this topic some 3 years ago... can still be found in Reduser.
Guido

 

[Filip Orlandic]

B2PRO offered for sale or rental a Pentax 67 to PL adapter... there was a thread by Jarred on this topic some 3 years ago... can still be found in Reduser.
Guido

B2pro was selling them for $750.

 

[Nick Morrison]

I've read that the Mamiya 645 normal lens is the 80 mm. Not sure what it is for the Pentax 67. Also read that Medium Format lenses reduce by about half... that is, a 200 mm becomes equivalent to a 100 mm or so. Can you confirm that? Probably those numbers were for Medium Format on a DSLR.

80mm is normal lens for Medium Format
50mm is normal for FF35
35mm is normal for S35

 

[Clint Lealos]

I contacted them a couple times about that adapter and no response... bummer.

For the record, I went with Pentax 67 glass. There are a ton of variants for each lens, so do your homework. Nick's recommendations are spot on.

 

[Nick Morrison]

I contacted them a couple times about that adapter and no response... bummer.

For the record, I went with Pentax 67 glass. There are a ton of variants for each lens, so do your homework. Nick's recommendations are spot on.

I personally went with Hasselblads, and have never looked back. They look a lot like MF Contax lenses...and a number are very sharp (50 2.8, 120 macro, 180 f4).

 

[Dunkan Wolf]

I personally went with Hasselblads, and have never looked back. They look a lot like MF Contax lenses...and a number are very sharp (50 2.8, 120 macro, 180 f4).

Don't forget the Hasselblad 40mm f/4.0 CFE IF (ignore the non-IF version).

 

[Nick Morrison]

Don't forget the Hasselblad 40mm f/4.0 CFE IF (ignore the non-IF version).

Haha - yeah been eying the 40 for a while, especially the CFE. So are there two CFE's? The FI and non? That may explain why some are twice as much as others!

 

[Elsie N]

For elsie,

the only time a 100mm is a 50mm is if you are using the 6x7 frame. so if you want to use a 100mm on a pentax 67, it's a 50mm. 645 and 6 by 6 is another crop ratio. I had a 6x9 camera from Fuji Film once, and it gave great images for a 50 year old camera. But i kept going back to the pentax 67 because the images that the camera and lenses were spitting were just more pleasant. Sold the camera and actually made a 100 bucks lol. In my opinion 6x7 is the best medium format. Since it allows me to change lenses and let's me go wide or telephoto. anything in between full frame and 6x7 is awkward, if you are putting down cash to shoot 120 might as well go hard, really hard

Good to hear, Nick... especially since finding the M42 screwmount to PL, I've been buying mostly Pentax (Takumar) 6x7 glass lately. Found one Mamiya 645 screwmount that I also bought, but mainly have been concentrating on the Pentax 6x7 glass.

I toyed with the idea of going Mamiya RB67 or RZ67 slow glass (apparently two separate mounts?) but settled on the Pentax 6x7 as the better bargain.

That said, my initial purchase was a group of 7 Mamiya C lenses that could pass for new (deceased photographer owned.) I'll have to shoot with those at some point, possibly initially, as they beckon from the aesthetic quality of the physical lens itself. '-)

 

[Iskander Ben Amor]

I toyed with the idea of going Mamiya RB67 or RZ67 slow glass (apparently two separate mounts?)

Do know which mounts would you need to do this?

I'm saving up for an Epic MX in the future and I already have an RB67 with the 50mm f/4.5, 90mm f/3.5 L and the 180mm f/4.5. It would be really cool to use those lenses on a Red!

 

[Minu Park]

I own both 67 mark2 series lenses and 645 whole sets.

Many people argue, medium format lenses are suck.

No, it is less sharp, but I found their look very attractive.

It's kind of weird to see people avoid using medium format lens, its because less sharp. Again, these guys used very soft "Inperfect 50-70 years old lenses" So I found their logic a bit weird.

Old medium format lenses are really amazing for video shooting.
For instance, Mamiya 645 lenses have long focus throw. Bokeh look amazing and creamy.

In fact, these old lenses have better C.A resist than C.P2, which I was quiet surprising to see.

It seems like you want to use 67 lenses, now here is my "Review on Mamiya 67 lenses" on any CAMERA that has canon mount.

You'd better not using 67 mamiya lens on the motion picture camera.
Here is the reason. 67 lenses don't have focus ring on the lens. the focus ring is on the camera -- I know you might look at me weirdly lol. Check the link that I attached.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_mbNKwh4iU

around 8:50 min, you can see how focus is working.
Again, Pentacon Six, and Hasselblad lenses have focus ring on their lenses. So you could consider 6x6 -- Which is a huge bummer. I love my 67 lenses... these guys create amazing image with my 18 years old camera.

I am not sure when we are going to see actual 6x7 sized sensor in the future/ Than again, that camera would be hugeeee(Think of 2 times bigger sensor than current hasselblad 50 mpx sensor lol)
Even I use my standard 110mm 2.8 at wide open, I found super crazy shallow depth of field, and I don't dare to shoot them in close distance because I will most likely miss the focus.

I bought these 645 Mamiya lenses, like four years ago, when I heard Red was going to make 65mm sensor in the future. Let's see whether my collection will be very useful in the near future lol.

I am going to be back to the USA after this doc shooting on this Jan 11th, and at that time, my Epic-w must be delivered. If you are living in nyc, let me know, we could bring the camera somewhere and make a quick mamiya lens set review for our fellow filmmakers

After I used Mamiya lenses here are some thoughts.

45mm 2.8 solid sharp

55mm 2.8 solid sharp

80mm 1.9/ soft on wide open, but crazy beautiful look, I found this lens better than Hasselbald 110mm 2.0(Hasselblad 2.0 is really really soft) - Again it becomes sharp at 2.8

110mm 2.8 this is one of the sharpest lens on "Cheap lens" line

150mm 2.8 Wide open, it's really suck. Super soft at 2.8, I would not recommend you this.

200mm 2.8 Apo sharp sharp sharp (One of mamiya's rare lens)

300mm 2.8 Apo I found this lens really sharp, I bought this 3600$ 4 years ago(This lens is like 200mm 1.8 in medium format world) At that time, I was thinking of buying Red 300mm 2.8, but I just saw this on ebay. Just hit the purchase button. Never regret. I will keep it until I die lol

Now, I didn't buy 200mm 3.5 and 300mm 4.5 nor 400mm 4.5(This is rearest lens of all in 645 lens series)

 

[Minu Park]

Ah... I need to give you guys about negative thing about old medium format lens.

Breathing suck******************

 

[Iskander Ben Amor]

Thank you for the detailed response! I'm very new to the Mamiya and medium format in general and didn't consider that the camera itself focuses before I asked! I am definitely down to try some medium format lenses after reading your post, though.

 

[krzysztof jankowski]

I contacted them a couple times about that adapter and no response... bummer.

Pentax 6x7 adapter:

https://c7adapters.com/en/product/pentax_6x7_-_pl_mount/45

 

[Ulf Krentz]

80mm is normal lens for Medium Format
50mm is normal for FF35
35mm is normal for S35

The "normal" focal length is the diagonal of the sensor size: √ (height x height + length x length), So for 6/7 it´s about 90mm, for 4,5/6 and the common digital sensor sizes in MF photography about 70mm.
Those RB and RZ lenses share the same mount with the RB lenses having a full mechanical shutter and the RZ lenses having an electronically controlled shutter. Both types of lenses indeed have no focussing at all as it is done with a bellows system in camera. The look of this Mamiya glass is extremely pleasing, with some true gems in the line, wish somebody would make a focussing adaptor for RED.

Cheers
Ulf

 

[Minu Park]

The "normal" focal length is the diagonal of the sensor size: √ (height x height + length x length), So for 6/7 it´s about 90mm, for 4,5/6 and the common digital sensor sizes in MF photography about 70mm.
Those RB and RZ lenses share the same mount with the RB lenses having a full mechanical shutter and the RZ lenses having an electronically controlled shutter. Both types of lenses indeed have no focussing at all as it is done with a bellows system in camera. The look of this Mamiya glass is extremely pleasing, with some true gems in the line, wish somebody would make a focussing adaptor for RED.

Cheers
Ulf

Indeed, I think 110mm 2.8 is one of the most beautiful smooth Bokeh I've seen. I still love this lens, and I am still shooting Black and white with this camera for fun.
It's a sad thing that we don't have a lots of Polaroid films around anymore. It used to be cheaper than consumer color polaroid, so I often bring the camera out and shoot it with my friends for fun around 7-8 years ago.

FIY, actually there is an adaptor that Fotodiox made.