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5K iMac or New Mac Pro?

Mark K.

Mark K.

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Hi Guys,

I currently have a maxed out late 2012 27" iMac, 3.4Ghz i7 quad-core, 2GB GPU, 32GB RAM. And lately, having been doing a lot of grading work with in Davinci with raw (5k Redcode, 4k Sony raw, 2.8k Arriraw), I've just been having constant crap outs. I'm always running out of GPU memory, or having the whole system shutdown (which forces me to have autosave running every five minutes - and is just a pain in general (particularly in the middle of 3 hour exports!).

So I'm really feeling the need for more grunt. At the very least, enough GPU memory that Davinci doesn't crash constantly.

The Mac Pro trashcan has never been too compelling (and now it's three year old tech) so I've looked into other things like hackintoshes, but I'm just not too comfortable with that idea. At the moment, it looks like I could get either a maxed out 5k iMac (4Ghz i7 CPU, 64GB RAM, 4GB GPU) for around $5000 or a near maxed out New Mac Pro (12-core 2.7GHz, 64GB RAM, Dual D700s) for only about $400 more.

At that minor price difference, the New Mac Pro certainly starts to have a lot more appeal, especially with 12-cores for VASTLY faster exports from Resolve, and 12GB of GPU RAM (which I assume would never 'run out' anymore).

However, I've been reading these horror stories of botched rendering from the New Mac Pros in Resolve, which gives me pause.

How do people think the market stands at the moment for mac-centric options? Are there any other options I should be considering for around a $5500 budget?

Going back to PC might be an option for Resolve, but I do my editing in FCPX, so I really don't want to have to change or mix systems if I can avoid it.

What do people think?
 
mamaging performance

mamaging performance

A relatively well equipped PC will put Resolve I in much more comfortable position. In fact, it will be a joy to use. And is more easily configurable.

Probably your current iMac is a capable Final Cut solution. You may consider a dual platform approach, it may provide more mileage than a single computing platform.

It's difficult in a post environment not to have access to the utility of a Mac. Neither on its own is an elixir.
 
I've got a decked out 5k iMac and it's the best all around machine I've ever used. Run the full Adobe CC Suite daily and it handles 4k R3D footage pretty easily. However, if I was grading every day, I'd probably build a Hackintosh or PC. The graphics cards on a real workstation are just so much better.
 
There are a lot of great reasons to go to a Windows PC. Also a lot of great reasons to stick with the Mac. All things considered, it's best to have and utilize both. That said, a lot still comes down to user comfort and preference. The iMac is nice, but is due for an update literally any day now. I would only buy once the update with Thunderbolt 3 shows up and I expect to see it unveiled at or around WWDC. The same thing can be said for the Mac Pro. Can't really look at the Mac Pro as having 3 year old tech, Xeon workstations don't really conform to that sort of paradigm. The CPUs and GPUs being used are about 2.5 years old at this point and Intel has released one update to the Xeon family since, offering a couple more cores for a lot more money with no real improvements other than support for DDR4 memory. Didn't make sense for Apple to rework and update the CPUs. The GPUs, however, are an entirely different story. We have seen two iterations since with mostly minor updates, but that's not really the issue here. The GPU problems that plague the Mac Pro are software related and blame can be spread between Apple and AMD... AMD responsible for most of it. Neither have put in any real effort to fix GPU driver bugs or optimize performance. Honestly, AMD has abandoned support and improvement efforts for the PC variant of that GPU line as well. I honestly don't know why Apple doesn't pick nVidia GPUs for these "pro" systems. We should have had the option to pick between dual GTX760's or dual Quadro K5000/6000 given the timeframe of the system's release and the power design of the system. Probably also should have had another cheaper option in that mix as well.

There are occasionally render glitches with the AMD GPUs in the Mac Pro. It's extra bad in Premiere, but much of this is due to Adobe's poor OpenCL implementation. Inflamed a bit more than it should be due to the AMD/Apple GPU driver situation. And most of these same issues also rear their head on PCs with certain AMD GPUs. Resolve can also encounter some errors, for the same reasons, but by no means as often or severe as Premiere.

Given your budget... Are those Aussie $? If so, your best bet would be to stick it out for the next month or two and get the updated iMac. Or build a PC. Even with the used market heating up for the 2013 Mac Pro, going rate for a maxed-out 8-core is $5700USD. So you could pick up a maxed out 6-core or perhaps an 8-core with smaller SSD within your budget. I think used Mac Pro prices will drop more after WWDC. We'll know what Apple's plan is for the Mac Pro at that time..

The PC build option is going to be the best for Resolve... But that 5K iMac screen... Wow.
 
I ended up picking up an iMac 5K maxed out for processing dailies on a movie I'm currently on and it's a nice machine with a beautiful screen. But when it comes to Resolve and heavy lifting I think there are better options. For this movie, I'm using Scratch which has performed well. But I would imagine that Resolve with 5k or 6K footage and lots of nodes might be a challenge. I'm curious to see what Apple announces in regards to new Mac Pros. I dealt with the render issues in Resolve with the D700s in the nMP. Not pretty and it's a shame that AMD and Apple dropped the ball on this. That should have been a rock solid collaboration with solid drivers and a beast of a machine. Hasn't really lived up to the expectations in my opinion.
 
The reason why stuck around Mac is clearly Prores. Resolve on Windows can't write it and it will never will.
BUT!
Now in 12.5 there is a new nugget, that allows you to kick off a Prores render FROM Windows. Luigi was first who tested it and I too now can verify, that it works very well. So, here are three avenues for action:
1. Stick with Mac. Pros. It's simple and it works. Pros. It's always behind technological curve, can't upgrade, it's underpowered and it's expensive.
2. Built Hackintosh. Pros. You can built very powerful computer for much less money. Cons. It's unreliable and it is PIA to maintain.
3. Get a PC with whatever hardware bells and whistles you wish. Get an old Mac Pro 5.1 with GTX 980. Get a second dongle ($300?) and set up a simple gE network. Do all your work on PC and Remote render to a MacPro.
Pros. You choose your own hardware and upgrade it as you wish. You save money on PC vs Mac. Cons. You need an extra Mac, another dongle and you need to set up a network.
Make your choice!
 
I have and use the iMac, MacPro and a beast of a PC. The main issue and why a Mac Pro is in my main suite and the PC is in my assistant editor suite is the noise. The PC crunches RD3's better than anything but the fans are really loud. All the apple computers are much more quiet.
 
Maybe they would be more compelling if they weren't just building systems out of off-the-shelf parts...
 
I don't pretend to know much about PC's, but every one I've used regardless of cooling method has more fan noise than the Mac Pro. There may be something I don't know about. If it exists I'd like to know. Also, windows always lets me down in some way, it's just crappy software. Although, since Job's passing Apple is starting to pile on the shit as well. El Capitan has not impressed me yet and broke my Premiere system so that I had to downgrade.
 
I strongly discourage the Hackintosh route. Not a quality solution. Breaks easily with OS upgrades, difficult to get to a stable build, industrial strength hardware drivers are difficult to source, network card goes offline at very inconvenient times or heavy loads. We have a few as render boxes. Obedient and do what they are intended for. But hardly a Kum Ba Yah feeling compared to using a real Mac.

We have a nMP next to the bagels with reduced-fat chive & onion cream in the conference room to impress the clients. Makes us look smart, meanwhile we are actively hacking together hardware solutions behind the scenes to get the job done :)
 
5K iMac if you must buy now

5K iMac if you must buy now

If you can, wait for new Macs with the new school USB-C ports which include TB3 as a subset. To properly back those fast ports, you'll want a v3 chipset that natively supports at least 32 lanes of PCIe3 connectivity. Really hoping we see a MacPro cylinder with the newer bus standards, DDR4 support and, if there's a god, 2x Pascal based nVidia GPUs by years end. That's the droid I'm looking for...

No, not holding my breath on the Pascal cards, but if Apple does make that leap - and offers 24GB VRAM per GPU in the top model - we might finally have the compact, quiet next generation powerhouse the first trashcan just wasn't.

Cheers - #19
 
I saw that the Mac categories for Apple earnings were flat. That could be a cup half full or half empty. Apple could choose to polish up non iPhone/iPad assets or turn more resources to finding the next golden egg.
 
Chris Henze said:
I have and use the iMac, MacPro and a beast of a PC. The main issue and why a Mac Pro is in my main suite and the PC is in my assistant editor suite is the noise. The PC crunches RD3's better than anything but the fans are really loud. All the apple computers are much more quiet.
Click to expand...

If the pc noise is an issue, you can look into a Supermicro Whisper Quite enclosure. It's quiter, than Trashcan.
 
My kid built a HackinTosh that blazes for less than 1/2 the cost of a Pro Tower. Has cool gamer LED's inside also. I want LED's in my MacPro :-/
 
Going the PC route, I always feel compelled to recommend the HP Z840 for those not wanting or needing to get their hands dirty. Expandable, reliable, quiet, expensive. But good support from HP. Building my own system makes me personally responsible for a good birthing process. These days, I less inclined.
 
jake blackstone said:
The reason why stuck around Mac is clearly Prores. Resolve on Windows can't write it and it will never will.
BUT!
Now in 12.5 there is a new nugget, that allows you to kick off a Prores render FROM Windows. Luigi was first who tested it and I too now can verify, that it works very well. So, here are three avenues for action:
1. Stick with Mac. Pros. It's simple and it works. Pros. It's always behind technological curve, can't upgrade, it's underpowered and it's expensive.
2. Built Hackintosh. Pros. You can built very powerful computer for much less money. Cons. It's unreliable and it is PIA to maintain.
3. Get a PC with whatever hardware bells and whistles you wish. Get an old Mac Pro 5.1 with GTX 980. Get a second dongle ($300?) and set up a simple gE network. Do all your work on PC and Remote render to a MacPro.
Pros. You choose your own hardware and upgrade it as you wish. You save money on PC vs Mac. Cons. You need an extra Mac, another dongle and you need to set up a network.
Make your choice!
Click to expand...



YUCK!

I do need ProRes, which is a serious issue with going the PC route... literally every one of those options sounds awful though :/ computers suck.

Thanks for all of your thoughts and suggestions guys. I'm starting to think it's probably best to just grin and bear it for the time being. And wait for Thunderbolt three to arrive.

That at least will allow me to safely pair something like the new iMac, with an external GPU, which might solve a lot of my issues.

$5400 for a maxed out New Mac Pro is certainly appealing compared to $5000 for the maxed-out iMac (barefeats shows basically 2x the performance in Resolve), but these rendering issues people have been having are a serious concern - I'm not spending $5400 only to run into more computer-based headaches.
 
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