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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

5K 9K come on whats going on!?

A

Allan Legarth Nielsen

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I don't know everything in details, but working as a 1st AC I know a thing or two, and I have also worked with the RED ONE a couple of times.

Just a frustration outburst here. Just read a little about Scarlett and EPIC.

Can't really see what it is they're trying to do... you can built your own still/film camera or what? Why? Fisher Price toys, is that what it is?

And then you can shoot up to 5K and 9K..... WHO WOULD DO AND NEED THAT ANYWAY?

Come one, it's even ridiculous when I have been on RED ONE shoots, and they wanna shoot 4K, even 2K. You don't need it. Yeah okay, if you're Steven Soderbergh, and you have Benicio Del Toro in the leadrole. But the average indie filmmaker is never going to have their films shown on big cinemascreens anyway. Why don't they just shoot 1080 or even 720, good enough.

No no we're gonna shoot 4K!? Even the leading digital film cameras, Panavision Genesis and ARRI D21 "only" records 1080, which is even smaller than a 2K filmscan, and is there seriously anyone here, that honestly can tell me that, that isn't good enough......?!?!

Blu-Ray only supports 1080 at the moment, so why even bother shooting higher resolution than that? You have less discspace and more crap to render in post, and you might even have to downscale it anyway.

Come on?!?!?
 
Depth of field. Latitude in post.
Two fairly common reasons to shoot 4K.
 
"I don't know everything in details"...



I don't know what you're on Allan, but your first line sums it up.

To quote the Andy Millman character from Extras, "Are you 'avin' a laugh?"
 
I think you need to look into how CMOS sensors work.
The Only reason to shoot 2k or 3k on a Red is to get higher fps, or if you are stuck with s16 lenses.

You can see the difference between 4k and 2k at 720p resolution.
 
Yeah maybe, but not something you can make the big difference between anyway. As said before, the Genesis and D-21, looks more like film with the same DOF, than the RED, and only shoots 1080.

Wouldn't know about post, I'm not a post-guy.
 
I was laughing through the post! Thanks for that fun Allan!

I don't know you as a 1rst AC but hope you don't react this way with your DP's!

What! Lens change again? C'mon let's do it with the 50! It's allready on camera!

:)
 
Effects plates on a big budget feature? Imax? I'm sure we will see a bunch of great ideas for the 617.

Why would anyone need 70mm if you have 35mm.
Why would anyone need 35mm if you have 16mm.
Why would anyone need 16mm if you have 8mm.

Use what makes sense for the job you are doing.
 
Patrick Tresch said:
I was laughing through the post! Thanks for that fun Allan!

I don't know you as a 1rst AC but hope you don't react this way with your DP's!

What! Lens change again? C'mon let's do it with the 50! It's allready on camera!

:)
Click to expand...


Lens change is completely different. Has nothing to do with resolution. Don't know why you bring that up. Just answer my questions, I might even learn something, that I didn't know.
 
Michael answerd you. CMO don't work like a filmscan or an 1080 D21 output.

If you use a 2k CMO your end resolution will be a bit more than 1k. Shoot 4k if you end up @ 2k dpx for filmout. Now shoot 6k if you want to have a 4k "effective" resolution to go on a 4k arrilaser.

This is not THE exact science just a vague summary... :-)

What made me laugh in your post was more the mood than the technical argument = why increasing K numbers?

Have a nice stay at REDUSER.

Patrick
 
Michael Ragen said:
Effects plates on a big budget feature? Imax? I'm sure we will see a bunch of great ideas for the 617.

Why would anyone need 70mm if you have 35mm.
Why would anyone need 35mm if you have 16mm.
Why would anyone need 16mm if you have 8mm.

Use what makes sense for the job you are doing.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. BUT isn't our effects good enough? The shots in Dark Knight that was shot on IMAX cameras, weren't they good enough. Do you need anything better?

We have reached the peak, everything now is just a way to make more money, which I can't blame them people to do so, just can't understand why industry people let themselves be fooled my it.
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Michael answerd you. CMO don't work like a filmscan or an 1080 D21 output.

If you use a 2k CMO your end resolution will be a bit more than 1k. Shoot 4k if you end up @ 2k dpx for filmout. Now shoot 6k if you want to have a 4k "effective" resolution to go on a 4k arrilaser.

This is not THE exact science just a vague summary... :-)

What made me laugh in your post was more the mood than the technical argument = why increasing K numbers?

Have a nice stay at REDUSER.

Patrick
Click to expand...

OK, sounds like I'm finally getting some constructive feedback here.

why increasing K numbers? What do you mean? Because I thinks it's rediculous to make a device that can capture 9 or 28 K. I that was what you were refering to?
 
I think I understand why your asking? The eye can only see what its capable of. I think one answer is for certain applications and for what an artist would want, more canvas/paint on the pallet, if they prefer. Maybe a bad analogy would be why would someone pay for a luxury vehicle if they can just buy a economical vehicle, if they still get/use whatever vehicle to drive? Sorry if this did not help.

Also, Down scaling is better than the other way around. If you blow up an image it looks blurry, distorted, faded color etc. And down scaling is better on image than just whatever straight output size you want. If you want to re size an image or crop, fix, its better to have more resolution to work with. Plus you never know what the future will be as far as picture resolution is concern.
 
Its the same reason people use the H3D at 30+ megapixels to shoot photos that only end up in a 8x10 magazine, or why people would shoot 35mm film for a TV commercial shown at SD.
 
This IMAX stuff in The Dark Knight did look great.
Now there is the 645 9k camera coming out so there will be something of a digital equivalent.

Not everyone can afford to shoot on giant film negs.

You have to remember too, that the idea is that these cameras can be used for stills as well.

There is one camera out similar to the 28k, but it takes a second to expose an entire frame, this one is supposed to be able to do 25fps.

So for bill boards and large print ads this thing would be awesome. And the price is definitely not outrageous.
 
Joseph Ward said:
I think I understand why your asking? The eye can only see what its capable of. I think one answer is for certain applications and for what an artist would want, more canvas/paint on the pallet, if they prefer. Maybe a bad analogy would be why would someone pay for a luxury vehicle if they can just buy a economical vehicle, if they still get/use whatever vehicle to drive? Sorry if this did not help.
Click to expand...

I see what you mean.
 
Michael Ragen said:
This IMAX stuff in The Dark Knight did look great.
Now there is the 645 9k camera coming out so there will be something of a digital equivalent.

Not everyone can afford to shoot on giant film negs.

You have to remember too, that the idea is that these cameras can be used for stills as well.

There is one camera out similar to the 28k, but it takes a second to expose an entire frame, this one is supposed to be able to do 25fps.

So for bill boards and large print ads this thing would be awesome. And the price is definitely not outrageous.
Click to expand...

Okay, I get the billboards and large print thing, if you use it for stills.

Don't get me wrong, but I thinks it's getting easier and easier for average people to go out there and make films. So if they can't afford shooting on IMAX, well leave it to the professionals, and wait till you're pro too!
 
Allan. This is the best 1080 camera there is. There is no other way to to shoot full frame than by shooting 4k. Only 1 percent will end up using 4k in the end but it's necessary to shoot 4k to get the 35mm DOF and the oversampling makes the 1080 look better. This 9-28k stuff puzzles me a bit but would be great for VFX. Any less DOF than FF35 will be so tricky to pull focus on.
 
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