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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

5d mkii or 7d for b roll cam?

I'll be bringing along my FS100 as my "backup camera" until I know that my Scarlet rig is rock solid.
 
Good thoughts guys. I do wonder how i'll get on with the 60D. I'll end up buying an epic and or another scarlet later in 2012, but for now it think it will workout.
 
Karim D. Ghantous said:
The 5DII is probably the worst video DSLR available today. Big sensor? Wow. Who cares? It's softer than either the 7D or D7000 (go to Patrick's link above). You don't need 24x36mm sensors for a 'cinematic' look. The people who rave about the 5DII usually don't know what they're talking about. Even if 2K was 'enough', there are better options.

EDIT: I am not a DP, FWIW.
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Well maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I prefer the 5DII. I use it all the time with both Red One and Epic...its cuts together well when mastering to 1080.
 
paulherrin said:
i own and shoot with a dslr... but the more i try to work with the footage, the more i get frustrated. it's a great, cheap little device - but that's all it is. for web viewing purposes, it's not impossible to match up shots between cameras: you'll have to soften the red footage with blurs, median filters, and or noise reduction, then sharpen it back a little with an unsharp mask to make it look similar. there are obviously, other things you can do to throw away information to make it cut in. you'll also be much more limited in your color correcting if you're trying to match it in the same scene.
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Naaaa, I just did a cable series for Discovery Channel that had scenes shot with a Red One, a Sony F3, and a Canon 5D, and we were able to match them all OK in color-correction. It just took time and effort. We didn't have to soften or blur anything; the sharpness for everything matched fine for 1080 24p delivery. Black detail and noise were sometimes big problems, but the director liked the look and kept the noise as-is.

I doubt that anybody at home will ever notice.
 
Jonas Klittmark said:
I disagree with what seems to be the consensus here that the 5D should not be considered. I have shot a lot with 5D/7D/60D and the 5D has at least 1 stop of noise advantage compared to its brethren. At ISO 1250 it looks equal or better than the 60D/7D does at 640 in most cases. That's not a small advantage.

It also has about 1 stop more shallow DOF. Whether that's an advantage or disadvantage obviously depends on a lot of factors... But it can be nice to have. I love the look of a shallow DOF wide shot and this is much easier to achieve with the 5D.

Whether it's softer or not than the 7D/60D, I don't know. They all suck in this regard IMO. Barely even resolves 720p. They all look fine for web 720p distribution but suck terribly at anything higher.

Personally, I like the 60D for the swivel screen. I like the 7D for the 1080p HDMI output during recording. And I like the 5D because it takes better looking footage. :-)
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I disagree. I just saw the movie "LIKE CRAZY" a few weeks back at a 40 foot screen in Hollywood. I didn't event know what it was shot on until the Q & A with the actors who revealed that it was completely shot on a Canon 7D. Let me tell you, the movie looked fantastic! I thought they had used a better camera. Granted, it can't measure up to Scarlet, but it looked way better than you think. The movie won the grand prize at Sundance and was sold for 4 million dollars... for a movie shot on a 7D!
 
Heh - that was actually my Personal HotRod Cameras 7D-PL serial number 001. Later Stolen because of Negligence at Birns and Sawyer.

I'd be much happier having Scarlet-X Serial 001 though hahaha.
 
I've used my 7D as a B cam on shoots with the RED MX.

It looks just fine.

I could show you some stuff and you'd never be able to pick it out.
 
BrandonChristensen said:
I've used my 7D as a B cam on shoots with the RED MX.

It looks just fine.

I could show you some stuff and you'd never be able to pick it out.
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Brandon,

I would be interested in that challenge! Bring it on. I'm not suggesting that I will be able to tell, I'm just interested.

MC
 
Dan Kanes said:
Heh - that was actually my Personal HotRod Cameras 7D-PL serial number 001. Later Stolen because of Negligence at Birns and Sawyer.

I'd be much happier having Scarlet-X Serial 001 though hahaha.
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Hey Dan, What lenses did they use on that film?
 
Lee Brandt said:
I disagree. I just saw the movie "LIKE CRAZY" a few weeks back at a 40 foot screen in Hollywood. I didn't event know what it was shot on until the Q & A with the actors who revealed that it was completely shot on a Canon 7D. Let me tell you, the movie looked fantastic! I thought they had used a better camera. Granted, it can't measure up to Scarlet, but it looked way better than you think. The movie won the grand prize at Sundance and was sold for 4 million dollars... for a movie shot on a 7D!
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Lee, I am not saying I don't like the look of the 5D. In fact I like it a lot. I'm just saying that it's not technically sharp because it does not resolve beyond 720p. And that's not an opinion, that's a fact:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?47529-EPIC-and-Alexa.../page2

Now, it may look sharp, but beyond 720p, all the 5D has is noise and aliasing. It's not information but misinformation (check out the resolution chart in the link). Note in the circle that the lines are there but they are going the wrong way... This is 5D aliasing at it's worst. Unfortunately, once you start noticing it, like I have, you see it everywhere - eyebrows, skin, everything.
 
I think i'll grab the EOS EF adaptor and stick with the GH2 for now. Watching MANY video comparisons of the GH2 vs the 60D and 7D, it outshines in a big way.
 
try NEX 5n with good glass - you'll be surprised,
APSc, 1080 60p, waaaay better WB, significantly less noise
 
The important thing here is to remember that by posting in this forum nobody is saying that there is no difference between a RED and a 7D, we'd be on a lesser forum to say that sort of thing. At 4k any 1080p camera looks rubbish. That's no different to upscaling from SD to HD, now it's HD to 4k. Same problem, new day. The thing that's important to me is how interchangeable the camera bodies are from a purely practical point of view. My 7D and future Scarlet should be interchangeable for most accessories and lenses. Thinking along the lines of Small HD, Zacuto rig and Canon or Zeiss glass. Part of the reason I like this idea is that if I'm trying to shoot something in a very tight space or a place where looking like a tourist is useful, or there's sea spray etc I can pick up a 7D body, use the batteries from my Small HD and the L series lens off the Scarlet. I'd personally feel much safer being able to do that for some situations. So, for me it's not all about codec.
 
Doug Beatty said:
Hacked GH2 does get great results, but you would need an adapter that would cripple IS and possibly have vignetting issues with Canon glass.
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You will never get vignetting issues using dslr Canon glass on a GH2... You will get the opposite (slightly more zoomed in) which is actually the sharper part of the lens. I have GH2 and a few Canon mounts from ebay, $30 each and fine quality.

Hacked Gh2 all the way. The only thing it lacks compared to the Canons are smaller sensor (not a major problem at 16:9 and identical to Scarlet 3K) and slightly less DR. I'd assume the B cam wont be used on shots that really need DR... So no worries.

Resolution, Moire and Jello are all greatly improved. Top camera for the price, especially with the hack.
 
JustinC said:
The important thing here is to remember that by posting in this forum nobody is saying that there is no difference between a RED and a 7D, we'd be on a lesser forum to say that sort of thing. At 4k any 1080p camera looks rubbish. That's no different to upscaling from SD to HD, now it's HD to 4k. Same problem, new day.
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if you deliver in 4K there are no inexpensive alternatives to B cam, it has to be another RED camera, but if you deliver in 1080, or 720 - there are a lot.
 
Sergio Perez said:
60D doesn't overheat as much as the 7D. This is worth considering. The 7D overheats a LOT.
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So buy a 2nd 7D body?

Of course, if you have to buy a B-camera body, don't forget all the "back-engineering" one has to do to get it user-friendly. Scarlett seems pretty cheap at that point. I think the best path is to hire an owner-operator for those days. You help out a fellow Reduser, AND, you spend no capital. Of course, a 7D would be great as a 3rd lockdown camera or an digi-eyemo.
 
Im thinking about picking up some pl lenses with my scarlet and using my 5d as a bcam. has any one tried the Red 18-85 lens on a 5d? I know I can shoot EF on both cams, but if investing in the glass, it would be nice to shoot pl on both cams. Looking at this adaptor. Havent been able to find anything confirming that the red lens will cover the 5d sensor. has anyone tried this yet?
 
I feel with proper handling of camera settings and post-production workflow that the 7D is a fantastic cheap B-cam. A while back we were shooting Red - M with a 7D as B cam and 5D as C cam. The 7D wasn't supposed to be used as much as it was, but when production fell behind next thing I knew, I was shooting 50 - 50 with the red. The final product was shown for a 400 person theater and no one outside of camera dept and editing knew the difference. Everything just looked good. of course final output was 1080 bluray and in a 4K workflow I don't think it would hold up, but I feel that these little cameras have held there own pretty well. You just have to understand the limitations of the system and work around them.
 
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