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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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I think financially it always made more sense to sell privately instead of doing the Red trade in. It's just that meant you'd lose your place in a queue for upgrades. Hopefully this new cam is just on general sale and I won't have to wait until the market is saturated with them to get one.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I'm actually wondering if this is going to be awkward for those owning a Scarlet Dragon or Epic Dragon. If it's a Weapon body, but with lesser specs, will it be available to upgrade to the next gen sensor? If so, the upgrade cost for going Epic-Weapon-NewSensor will be enormous compared to selling the Epic, buying this and upgrade to the next gen sensor.

If it's a better upgrade path to go with Raven, it's going to be a strange day to be an Epic owner.
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It's the way of things - remember when the Epic price was cut in half by Jim a few years back? That was a bold move to some and a bad move to others.

I'd suspect, this time, there might be something similar to the old stages approach... ie keep your Dragon and purchase a discounted Raven (a deal only available to current Dragon owners). That's if this is a 'Weapon' light version (as some suspect).

But, who knows? Not long to go now, RED will surprise us, I've no doubt about that. It all ends up on your individual perspective regarding the ROI on your kit.
 
In regards to this camera, saw and tried it at IBC. The 4k version had iso capped at 800, and even that seemed a little noisy. Compared to their sensor upgrade in the 4.6k version there is a massive difference in image quality as well as iso performance. So personally I would only go for the 4.6k one. Which has the usual bm related delivery times of maybe sometime later this year, if nothing goes wrong.

Mike Garrick said:
In regards to BM Ursa Mini ( 4k ) I find it interesting this footy is described by some as having beautiful "roll off"

https://vimeo.com/139460095
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I wouldn't worry about this upgrade hurting people waiting in line for Weapon. Remember when Jim made hilarious comments about Canon announcing C500 before the C300 shipped? Good times, man.
 
Aside from the fact you can still make amazing looking movies on it, I don't think there's a ton of rental value left in an Epic and (relatively speaking) not a ton of sale value either, especially as a lot of accessories won't fit Weapon body shapes.

It's a 5 year old camera after all. There really doesn't need to be a particular bone thrown out to owners of it with regards an upgrade. Either sell it and get in line or keep it and be happy with a fantastic camera. Same with the Scarlet-MX and Scarlet Dragon.

Would be great if Raven was a brand new thing for people to get involved in without it being tied up for a year with the people who already own a Red having first dibs on them all.
 
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I love my Epic Dragon, and I only see myself upgrading if there's a path to 8K Full frame while keeping all the current excellent high speed features and resolution of the current Dragon. The Dragon is my A camera and I think will work for it for at least 2 or 3 more years (if it continues as amazingly reliable as it is.) . Only a new revolution would make me go 20K for a upgrade. And the current Epic with side handle form factor is just brilliant. My original 5" Red Touch is amazing... Red has done such a good job with the Epic Dragon that they really need to outdo themselves with a new revolution, at least for me!

I can see Weapon being the ideal camera and a must upgrade for many , just not for me currently. What will Raven bring to the table??

Anyway, my next "A" camera will definitely be a Red. Its just a matter of "when"!
 
So Jarred just confirmed (I guess) it's a Dragon sensor. 4k with Dragon means 20,5mm wide sensor, it means 1,75x crop. I guess that's where Scarlet Dragon will have an edge (25,6mm @5k). I hope it will bring 120fps to Scarlet D too then.
 
sam karr said:
So Jarred just confirmed (I guess) it's a Dragon sensor. 4k with Dragon means 20,5mm wide sensor, it means 1,75x crop. I guess that's where Scarlet Dragon will have an edge (25,6mm @5k). I hope it will bring 120fps to Scarlet D too then.
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1.87x crop or 1.96x in HD16x9

this will be the weakness of this cam
 
Ben Scott said:
Aside from the fact you can still make amazing looking movies on it, I don't think there's a ton of rental value left in an Epic and (relatively speaking) not a ton of sale value either, especially as a lot of accessories won't fit Weapon body shapes.

It's a 5 year old camera after all. There really doesn't need to be a particular bone thrown out to owners of it with regards an upgrade. Either sell it and get in line or keep it and be happy with a fantastic camera. Same with the Scarlet-MX and Scarlet Dragon.

Would be great if Raven was a brand new thing for people to get involved in without it being tied up for a year with the people who already own a Red having first dibs on them all.
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Epic and Scarlet Dragon are not diminished by Weapons. They are current offerings. MX is being deprecated so they are not, as we've been told, on the same path. From what I understand, Epic and Scarlet Dragons are eligible for further development and improvements. A new Standard OLPF was just announced days ago which is an improvement available for current Dragons. "Either sell it or get in line... " is not the only option for current Dragon owners. That's what's available to owners of other manufacturer's cameras where physical improvements and upgrades are only available on subsequent models such as Sony or Canon.
 
Hugh Scully said:
Epic and Scarlet Dragon are not diminished by Weapons. They are current offerings. MX is being deprecated so they are not, as we've been told, on the same path. From what I understand, Epic and Scarlet Dragons are eligible for further development and improvements. A new Standard OLPF was just announced days ago which is an improvement available for current Dragons. "Either sell it or get in line... " is not the only option for current Dragon owners. That's what's available to owners of other manufacturer's cameras where improvement and upgrades are only available on subsequent models such as Sony or Canon.
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Yeah I'm not talking about Dragon owners here, although I did mention Scarlet Dragon owners just because a few are getting itchy feet. I'm really talking about MX owners. This isn't an upgrade for a Dragon and probably not an upgrade for a Scarlet Dragon either. It's something else. And so I don't see how/why there would be an 'upgrade path' to it for current Red owners. If anything that defeats the purpose of Red trying to corner a new market and say, take sales away from the C300mk2 arena (if that's what they intend to be doing).

In fairness I've put my money where my mouth is on this one. Sold my Scarlet-MX and hoping to get in line for this if it fulfils my needs and isn't astronomically out of my budget.
 
Grant Smucker said:
RED crop factor
http://www.red.com/tools/crop-factor
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I get this. But what I am trying to clarify is that when we speak of crop are we saying that a 20mm lens will be like a 35mm due to this crop factor? This crop notion in the link is only meaningful as it relates to the crop on say a 6K Dragon sensor to get 4K. I would assume that this 4K camera is a full sensor readout - not reading a portion of a larger sensor. And for lenses it is 1:1. That is what I was trying to fathom when we are speaking about crop factor. Because if it were the former in terms of lensing - it would be a complete turkey and I can't believe they would do such a thing.
 
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