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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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Josh Snyder said:
Well now there's first video shot with URSA Mini 4K. It was recorded in 1080p ProRes though (so not even using 4K and RAW). Looks pretty good anyways, and it's a camera that costs under 3k$: https://vimeo.com/139130557

I have no doubt URSA Mini 4.6K with 15 stops DR will perform very well (4K has 12 stops). I mean it costs under 5k$ which is pretty nuts. Waiting RED's answer :)
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You keep coming back to the URSA and BMD in general. If you're so sold on it go buy it. I would take Jarred at his word. He's not scared of what BMD is doing. I think they're in totally different leagues. To be completely honest I basically said this earlier. I don't think RED really cares about anyone else's roadmap. They're very clearly on their own level in terms of products and customer service IMHO. I'd bet because of that they have their own ideas and standards of where they want to be, and are as always shown in their tech advanced beyond their competitors.

I'm not saying that other camera's aren't good options, I love the A7S and even the C300. But have you ever noticed who is trying to play catch up? It's certainly not RED.

If you want to try and compare a URSA mini which is barely shipping, and will likely come with the other BMD hiccups the rest of the cameras have had then by all means try and compare them. But even if the Spec's are near or similar the URSA mini even with it's quoted DR doesn't touch a Scarlet in terms of usability right now, and thats an actual camera you can buy and use right now.
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
YBut even if the Spec's are near or similar the URSA mini even with it's quoted DR doesn't touch a Scarlet in terms of usability right now
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I hope you don't mean URSA Mini 4.6K with 15 stops DR and Scarlet-X because if you do, prepare yourself for a big reality check.
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
You keep coming back to the URSA and BMD in general. If you're so sold on it go buy it. I would take Jarred at his word. He's not scared of what BMD is doing. I think they're in totally different leagues. To be completely honest I basically said this earlier. I don't think RED really cares about anyone else's roadmap. They're very clearly on their own level in terms of products and customer service IMHO. I'd bet because of that they have their own ideas and standards of where they want to be, and are as always shown in their tech advanced beyond their competitors.

I'm not saying that other camera's aren't good options, I love the A7S and even the C300. But have you ever noticed who is trying to play catch up? It's certainly not RED.

If you want to try and compare a URSA mini which is barely shipping, and will likely come with the other BMD hiccups the rest of the cameras have had then by all means try and compare them. But even if the Spec's are near or similar the URSA mini even with it's quoted DR doesn't touch a Scarlet in terms of usability right now, and thats an actual camera you can buy and use right now.
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I agree. In many ways BMD isn't on the same level as RED, however I think it's fair to bring up the URSA mini because it's offering great IQ for a good price. I think a lot of people (myself included) would like to see RED blow everyone else out of the water with the RAVEN. It's funny/sad to see how many people on this thread are essentially throwing in the towel and saying this camera won't be anything special.
 
Josh Snyder said:
Well now there's first video shot with URSA Mini 4K. It was recorded in 1080p ProRes though (so not even using 4K and RAW). Looks pretty good anyways, and it's a camera that costs under 3k$: https://vimeo.com/139130557
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Have you seen the aliasing at 1'09''. )-: Is it due to downsampling to HD?
If not, I hope the 4.6k MiniUrsa will be better.

Pat
 
Josh Snyder said:
I hope you don't mean URSA Mini 4.6K with 15 stops DR and Scarlet-X because if you do, prepare yourself for a big reality check.
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Can you get one in your hands today? How much does it weigh? Is it going to work out of the box? I owned 2 BMC 2.5K's for 2 days each and both stopped working. I also was on a shoot that a 4K cam went down. How about pocket cam's?

I'm not saying that the URSA mini isn't a good camera. I'm sure it will be. But is it right now? I don't think anyone can comment because all the footage being shot on them right now is literally by the likes of people who get their hands on them first.

Until the URSA mini is shipping and actually rendering results on productions and actual projects on a normal basis it's not comparable in my eyes. I agree with you that 15 stops of DR is great. I'd love that even in a MX camera. But I think people put way to much stock into that type of stuff. In my opinion it's about real world results. The fact is I can take the RED with me just about anywhere. You can with an URSA Mini sure. But why would I when I can take something out that is half the size that does the same thing?
 
Curtis Woodbury said:
I agree. In many ways BMD isn't on the same level as RED, however I think it's fair to bring up the URSA mini because it's offering great IQ for a good price. I think a lot of people (myself included) would like to see RED blow everyone else out of the water with the RAVEN. It's funny/sad to see how many people on this thread are essentially throwing in the towel and saying this camera won't be anything special.
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I do think it's fair to bring it up. It's going to be a stellar camera. And offers great results. But until it's out and actually usable it's not even comparable. Irregardless this thread is about a new camera which also isn't out yet. So it's hard to really say anything about either. The one thing we do know about the Raven though, is it sure is a heck of a lot smaller!
 
The 4,6k URSA mini will be a whole new camera, nothing comparable to its 4k sister (new sensor / new dynamic range / new color science)..
I'm a Red owner and i will probably get this new Raven (if the price is right) but i have this feeling people : "Prepare yourself to be surprised, this new 4,6k ursa mini is not here to play the game, but to change it" ..
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
My guess: somewhere 8K sensors are being cut out of large substrates and run through QC. Since there are over 30 million photo sites on each 8K cut, the odds of having just one bad one is pretty high. Would you rather throw that expensive part in the trash, or cut it in half and put the "good" half - 4096 x 4096 (nominal) in a "entry level" camera that can utilize the same color science, OLPF design, etc being developed for Dragon anyway?

BTW, if I've guessed right I think I deserve a free camera... :Drogar-Smoke(DBG):

Cheers - #19
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…………..and still be able to fulfill requirements shooting Netflix productions.
 
Mendes Nabil said:
The 4,6k URSA mini will be a whole new camera, nothing comparable to its 4k sister (new sensor / new dynamic range / new color science)..
I'm a Red owner and i will probably get this new Raven (if the price is right) but i have this feeling people : "Prepare yourself to be surprised, this new 4,6k ursa mini is not here to play the game, but to change it" ..
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The best comparison would be similar to the original Blackmagic camera, since this is an evolved version of that sensor. So it should look similar to that pixel-for-pixel (but better, probably tweaked color filters, less noise, etc).

Add on top of that the fact that it will have a whole lot bigger area (and more resolution to downscale from etc) and it should be a stop or two better DR.

Bruce Allen
www.twitter.com/bruce_allen
 
Just for the record, neither I - or, I would wager, most of the others who find the BMD cameras sub-par - have anything "against" BlackMagic or Grant Petty. So far, every production I have been involved with that relied on any of the currently shipping BMD cameras had issues. Obviously my personal sample size isn't statistically significant, but I agree with other posters that most production companies are wary.

FWIW, in the lower end of the market, the Sony A7R2 is shockingly good for the price. The Sony FS7 w/ Odyssey 7Q+ is the best $10K-ish rig I've seen, and would be my first recommendation for shows that aren't interested in going Epic.

Cheers - #19
 
Red has proven it self as a serious provider of professional tools to help accomplish complicated and extremely expensive productions. Their customer service and user support (like this fantastic board) are another big reason they are so successful. I often run into people who feel that ARRI is the only way to go, And get stuck up about not wanting to shoot with red cams.

I have never ever ever, heard anyone I know who has a blackmagic design product tell me they would never shoot with a RED. Blackmagic cameras overheat, drop frames, media cards are unreliable, and so far have been heavy and awkward to hold. I don't know too much about the ursa mini.. But I can tell you no one I know will shoot a serious project for serious money on one..
I have had a few bumps in the road with my epic over the last 4 years (had to factory reset a few times) but it has never let me down on a major project.

I would hope people realize that they are also buying into the company, and what it has to offer as it pertains to customer support, firmware updates, upgrade paths, trade in values, battle tested products, and so on. Not just the specs that you see on paper.
it would be nice to see the specs on the Raven however!! :)
-Matt
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Just for the record, neither I - or, I would wager, most of the others who find the BMD cameras sub-par - have anything "against" BlackMagic or Grant Petty. So far, every production I have been involved with that relied on any of the currently shipping BMD cameras had issues. Obviously my personal sample size isn't statistically significant, but I agree with other posters that most production companies are wary.
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This sounds like what I heard about RED in the first years. Enjoying the cycle of life.

BTW We owned several BM cameras and sold them immediately. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying the irony.
 
Philip Lipetz said:
This sounds like what I heard about RED in the first years. (snip)
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I get your analogy, but it only goes so far. As one of the earliest RED adopters I saw a whole lot of issues in that first year - but over 90% was user error, not any fault of the camera system itself. IMO, BMD engineering got off to a much rougher start.

Cheers - #19
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Canon C300 MK2 - $16,000 - no on board RAW - nobody complains and they are selling like hotcakes.
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Judging from the "no money down" pre-order promotion MANY rental houses have going, I would say they are NOT selling like hot cakes at all. In fact they approved 0% financing before the camera even hit the street(last release they waited 6-10 months before announcing financing). I made about a dozen phone calls to rental houses asking about pre-order volumes and none of them had more than 1-2 pre-orders for the mk II. I have no doubt it'll be a great camera, but they are most certainly NOT selling like hot cakes.
 
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I love RED and went from being a former Scarlet owner to a former EPIC owner when the rental market (my primary source of income from the camera at the time) became WAY over saturated in LA. I'm really excited about this new camera offering, but I'm prepared to be wholly underwhelmed. 4K @ 30fps simply isn't going to cut it for me. I shot the EPIC once at 96fps and that was overkill for what I needed and subsequently shot everything else that I needed in slow motion at 60fps, BUT I NEEDED THOSE 60FPS. 4K, 5K, 6K didn't matter as much to me. I always shot 5K on the EPIC though.

From my experience, and this is coming solely from a guy who moved from a 5D Mark II, into a RED Scarlet, RED's offering here is going to disappoint anyone who is wanting more than 4K at 30FPS for less than $6K. A few months ago, I pre-ordered the URSA MINI 4.6K and unless RED beats the specs on that, I'm going to stick with it. It's going to be a camera that I'll use for passion projects, nothing really beyond that as I'm primarily a director and editor now.

Though.. I do hope this has 4.6K at 60fps. I open my RED footage from time to time in RED Cine-X and just for fun play with the grading.
 
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