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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4K limited to dvd and HD channel

You forgot that RED is ahead of time.
If all the theaters could allready screen 4k it would mean that 4k workflow had been implemented long ago, and if this device hit it's peak at the start it would mean all the rest was a downfall. The reason you are crazy about this cam is because it's a breakthrough.
The point IS that the rest is yet to follow RED. Be patient.
Where's the rush? You can always save 4k material for the time it can be used to the fullest.
2k for now is not enough?

Talking about 2k and Lucas just like that seems a bit pretentious. A year ago most of us could only dream about making 2k (six figure factor).

Is your work ment for the average people or only for the pro's?
Most of the viewers won't see the difference because THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT 4K LOOKS LIKE. That's the other factor you forgot.

Average people usually watch the story. Very few think about the resolution.
 
omen said:
Is your work ment for the average people or only for the pro's? Most of the viewers won't see the difference anyway. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT 4K LOOKS LIKE. That's the other factor you forgot.
Click to expand...

Sorry - I think this is completely untrue. Show a true 4K deliverable (4K from acquisition to projection... ) and then show a lesser resolution to an "average" audience.

Every single one of them will say the 4K is much, much better in quality. They just don't have the professional background to analyze that and tell you exactly "why" it is "better." They just know it's better.

The same principle can be extrapolated to delivery. Take a DCI master through a nice DLP projector. And then take a 35mm release print of the same material. Assume that both of them were created correctly, etc, etc. Show them side-by-side. They both look great!

Now show that same DCI master and that same release print 20 days later in your average cinema in your average town. Now which one looks beter?

Lucas
 
luki said:
Sorry - I think this is completely untrue. Show a true 4K deliverable (4K from acquisition to projection... ) and then show a lesser resolution to an "average" audience.

Every single one of them will say the 4K is much, much better in quality. They just don't have the professional background to analyze that and tell you exactly "why" it is "better." They just know it's better.

The same principle can be extrapolated to delivery. Take a DCI master through a nice DLP projector. And then take a 35mm release print of the same material. Assume that both of them were created correctly, etc, etc. Show them side-by-side. They both look great!

Now show that same DCI master and that same release print 20 days later in your average cinema in your average town. Now which one looks beter?

Lucas
Click to expand...

Sorry, but you missed my point. Maybe I chose the wrong word order. Offcourse everybody would notice the difference between 2k and 4k if they could compare them and offcourse they would know it's better. But how many people have even seen 4k?

My point was that people tend to get carried away and start taking things for granted.

I modified the last post a bit, to avoid further confusions.
 
Using RED will be on a curve like everything else....
How many shooting HD today are actually delivering HD...
chances are you are shooting HD because those are
the tools you use so you can deliver HD to the 20%
of clients who want/need it. Shooting, editing HD and deliver
to SD looks loads better than shooting, editing SD.....
So RED will probably deliver HD to 50% of your clients in a year....
Shoot 4K for some projects to get the workflow down so that
in a few years you will be ready to shoot, edit 4K while the HDCAM
guys are left to do the SD jobs.......
 
Red Guy said:
Shoot 4K for some projects to get the workflow down so that in a few years you will be ready to shoot, edit 4K while the HDCAM
guys are left to do the SD jobs.......
Click to expand...


But in a few years the workflow for 4K will probably be quite a bit different than what we would have right now. Remember, editing in HD was a challenge just a few short years ago. In other words, latecomers won't have as much to adjust to... In fact many probably won't come over to 4K until the 4K paradigm can drop right into their established NLE systems and workflow. In the mean time 4K offers us a chance to shoot something comparable to film with the advantages of a digital workflow. We can future-proof our work by already having it shot in 4K and we can use the resolution and quality increase of RED vs. HD cameras as a selling point for our services.
 
Yes, that is my thinking. I work with some shooters who up until last year have only shot film and now they want to transfer 16MM to HD. Those shooters are looking at HD cams now instead of continuing to shoot on film.
They have said that RED is a definite possibility.
 
I talked to a few smaller distributers and they say that it's still cheaper for them to get a film print than going digital.

One mentioned that many small theaters have paid their mortgages and own their equipment outright, so their overhead is low, especially since there isn't much profit from their share of the boxoffice.

So to them, spending 100k on a projector isn't financialy feesible. So it's probable that most small theaters will get bought out or shut down.

Even the big chains will probably cut back on screens, and have further consolidation.

The biggest challenge to theaters are big screen TVs, especially when those 100 inch screens get below the $30k-$50k range they are now.

I don't see the theatrical experience disappearing, but it won't be the way it is now.
 
Thomas Mathai said:
I talked to a few smaller distributers and they say that it's still cheaper for them to get a film print than going digital.

One mentioned that many small theaters have paid their mortgages and own their equipment outright, so their overhead is low, especially since there isn't much profit from their share of the boxoffice.

So to them, spending 100k on a projector isn't financialy feesible. So it's probable that most small theaters will get bought out or shut down.

Even the big chains will probably cut back on screens, and have further consolidation.

The biggest challenge to theaters are big screen TVs, especially when those 100 inch screens get below the $30k-$50k range they are now.

I don't see the theatrical experience disappearing, but it won't be the way it is now.
Click to expand...

It's not so much that the established mom and pop theatre will do the digital upgrades - rather a new breed of entertainment establishments will pop up.
More like the trend of having bowling alleys, video games, skateparks etc.
Look at what Jim has done in a few years. Google will probably get into this arena sooner or later.
 
Red Guy said:
It's not so much that the established mom and pop theatre will do the digital upgrades - rather a new breed of entertainment establishments will pop up.
Click to expand...

I think what some people are calling "microcinema" is going to be a fairly significant phenomenon. Get a digital projector in a room with 25-50 seats, not in something like a traditional theater space, but in something more like a Starbucks. Show local short films or other material that doesn't usually get major distribution. Charge next to nothing for admission and make your money selling coffee or whatever. Stuff that people really like can be scaled up to larger audiences as fast as you want, since showing something in more venues is just a matter of duplicating some data.
 
jeffry alan said:
just found this on cinematical.com:

"The major U.S. chains, owned by Regal Entertainment Group, AMC Entertainment, Inc. and Cinemark USA, Inc. are about to borrow $1 billion in order to furnish 13,000 screens (one-third of the country) with digital projectors. A joint venture of the three companies, National CineMedia LLC is working with JP Morgan Chase & Co. to raise the money from hedge funds and private-equity firms. The money will be paid back over seven years with help from the studios (this is still being worked out)." (07/07/06)

So it looks like the timing for RED is right in line with theaters.

J*
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posted four weeks ago on this thread
 
Perhaps I'm being naive, but don't most modern movies get converted to digital for post anyway and then put back onto film for the theatres?

The higher the digital version the better the final filmout no? So the higher the original digital recording the better surely? I'm guessing of course but surely modern post production is 4k or possibly 6k scans of film is it not? The problem for lucas was that his digital recording was so much lower resolution at 1080p that it didn't look so good when put onto film surely?
 
Chris Kenny said:
I think what some people are calling "microcinema" is going to be a fairly significant phenomenon. Get a digital projector in a room with 25-50 seats, not in something like a traditional theater space, but in something more like a Starbucks. Show local short films or other material that doesn't usually get major distribution. Charge next to nothing for admission and make your money selling coffee or whatever. Stuff that people really like can be scaled up to larger audiences as fast as you want, since showing something in more venues is just a matter of duplicating some data.
Click to expand...

All right let's get started!
 
PaulClements said:
...surely modern post production is 4k or possibly 6k scans of film is it not?
Click to expand...

No! The 'norm' is still 2k scans. Only a very few big budget films get 4k scans, and then often only for effect shots. Above 4k scanning is really the realm of IMAX.

Nick
 
I know quite a few folks down there as well and it seems to be quite a cluster on a regular basis. Their trucks seem to do a great job but other than that, I have not heard anything terribly exciting or relating to Cuban either. But what do I know, I'm just up here in Boulder. Regal Cinemas is another Colorado Company you should take a look at and see what they are up to from a digital screening standpoint.

P...
 
measurements, statistics, and film resolution

measurements, statistics, and film resolution

Tom said:
How is 4K-to-35mm a "downconversion"? 35mm film is a higher-resolution format.
That is like saying VHS-to-DVD is a "downconversion."
Click to expand...

I don't think the issue is quite so clear as that. You can measure resolution in many different ways, and it is better described by a curve (MTF or Modulation Transfer Function) than a single number. The limiting resolution for a slow film stock may be very high, but high resolution at very low contrast has little visible effect. And there are other things, for example SNR, or the noise level or amount of grain if you prefer, when describing the subjective quality of the image with numbers.

Whatever numbers you come up with, the consensus is that 4k projected images are more impressive than projected 35mm film.
 
And that's not taking into account the film duplication process which can take film down to almost SD resolution levels.
 
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