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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4k/2K versions of DNxHD ?

Job is correct.

Michael
 
So is there no 4K version of DNxHD??
 
I think that the max. is DNXHD 444 10 bit @ 1080P
But not already available.
Cheers
 
How can this be a serious cinema codec and not support 4K? Makes no sense to me.
 
Tom Lowe said:
How can this be a serious cinema codec and not support 4K? Makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard anyone refer to DNxHD, in any announced form, as a "cinema" codec. It has always been designed for editing and for television delivery formats. If anything, I feel what's missing from the announced 444 flavor is 12 bit capability, not higher resolutions.
 
I, personally, don't see the point. I've always seen DNxHD as on off-line and News TV codec. Either work in 4k Red natively or scale down to 1080p DNxHD for an off-line; then online with the Red files.
 
The entire AVID editing environment is limited to 1080p????

All my R3D files are already native in my 4K timeline.

I'm looking for a PC-based intermediate codec to transcode 5.6K timelapse to from the RAW files. I need 4K intermediates with reasonable bandwidth. Unless you guys have a better idea? I was trying to do some tests with DNxHD when I realized that 4K did not even appear to be an option.

Right now, I am using 4K DPX sequences. I am already exploring options with CineForm.
 
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Tom Lowe said:
The entire AVID editing environment is limited to 1080p????

All my R3D files are already native in my 4K timeline.

I'm looking for a PC-based intermediate codec to transcode 5.6K timelapse to from the RAW files. I need 4K intermediates with reasonable bandwidth. Unless you guys have a better idea? I was trying to do some tests with DNxHD when I realized that 4K did not even appear to be an option.

Right now, I am using 4K DPX sequences. I am already exploring options with CineForm.
Click to expand...


1. Very few people do any of that or have a need for it. In fact, I don't know of any editor who does, regardless of whether they're cutting television or features. And I know an awful lot of editors. What they want is fluidity.

2. Avid also has the DS line, which is resolution independent. And runs on Windows exclusively.

3. If you want to do what you're describing, Cineform is about the only current codec I can think of that can do that semi-gracefully.
 
M Most said:
1. Very few people do any of that or have a need for it. In fact, I don't know of any editor who does, regardless of whether they're cutting television or features. And I know an awful lot of editors. What they want is fluidity.
Click to expand...

That will soon change, IMHO. And they will have their fluidity.
 
Well, in their Burbank presentation earlier this year, Avid did openly flirt with larger frame sizes. Most things on that list are now in MC v6 (to be released tomorrow), but not 2K/4K/28K. Yet they do appear to be working on it, else they wouldn't have mentioned it.
 
M Most said:
1. Very few people do any of that or have a need for it. In fact, I don't know of any editor who does, regardless of whether they're cutting television or features. And I know an awful lot of editors. What they want is fluidity.
Click to expand...

Amen!
 
Tom Lowe said:
So is there no 4K version of DNxHD??
Click to expand...

Not at the moment. They have indicated at that public "this information just indicates the way we're moving but not is a specific promise blah blah blah" event that they are plannning to go all the way to 28K though.

Tom Lowe said:
The entire AVID editing environment is limited to 1080p????
Click to expand...

Media Composer currently is, yes. Avid DS can do 4K though.

Tom Lowe said:
So is there no 4K version of DNxHD??

All my R3D files are already native in my 4K timeline.
Click to expand...

Why? How does this help you make better edits, having everything at a resolution that's twice what you're viewing at?

Tom Lowe said:
So is there no 4K version of DNxHD??
I'm looking for a PC-based intermediate codec to transcode 5.6K timelapse to from the RAW files. I need 4K intermediates with reasonable bandwidth. Unless you guys have a better idea? I was trying to do some tests with DNxHD when I realized that 4K did not even appear to be an option.

Right now, I am using 4K DPX sequences. I am already exploring options with CineForm.
Click to expand...

Why don't you render everything at 1080p (takes much less time and space), finish your edit, THEN once your edit is locked, go back and finesse the final stuff and render out to 4K uncompressed then?

Generally, for final renders for cinema output, you go to an uncompressed format anyway. DNxHD is designed to make everything easy to edit, not for final IMAX output. Because the people who care about IMAX output do not particularly want to compress their images for final.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
What you will see tomorrow is Avid's first 64-bit version. There are still some things in development that won't make it into this release. However, you will see some performance gains that should indicate where this is all heading. For the time being, the limit is 1080.

Tom, I have to concur with Mike and others. Not that there is anything wrong with editing at 4K if your NLE and computer system can handle it. But a majority of editors prefer to work at resolutions that don't tax their system in any way. Especially client based sessions where rendering has to be minimized or you end up with frustrated clients. Premiere with Mercury Engine goes a long way to making these things possible. But not everyone is editing in Premiere or is comfortable with it yet. So, perhaps in time the trend will go towards 4k native editing with lots of real-time capability but for the majority right now, not sure that is the case. The more common practice is to edit at something reasonable like 1080P DNxHD36 and then conform/finish in whatever res you need. Because in the end the chances are you'll be conforming/color correcting anyway, so at that point you can get the most out of the footage, but the creative editing part doesn't necessarily need all of that.

Of course, there's no one right or wrong answer here, but if you were to take a survey of how things are right now (always subject to change) I think you will find a lot of editors working in DNxHD or ProRes 720 or 1080.
 
Steve is right -not having to wait on renders or hardware undderuns is something editors don't want to have to worry about, especially with clients in the room...the main issue above all is the fact there are no cost effective displays.

I know I would love to be editing in 4K, but there's no point until you have a way to see it at that resolution (or even affordable 2K external displays -not simply the Mac Pro 27")...with the release and opening up to Aja Kona 3G hardware means they are moving in the right direction -but the 2K resolutions are not yet supported in MC or Symphony.

Will there be something beyond the Nitris Box? At some point it would make a lot of sense, but nobody knows yet...in the meantime let's hope 3rd party kicks open that door.
 
doesn't sound like it would be all that hard to support 2k res as its not that much bigger than 1080p. least then you could output for what most cinemas can currently display.
 
At one point I should right a brief post about what picture editorial generally needs and expects. I've now had more than one DIT bring us up to 60 hours of 1080/2K ProRes 4444 for "offline"! If that's what you want to edit your personal footage with, more power to you. But it's not the way most editorial works.
 
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