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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

48fps... I've converted.

Daniel S Williams said:
But, should movies "look real"? I guess that's a question that the next few generations of movie goers will answer .
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artists and philosophers will respond to that question. most people don't care. and if they do it's only because something 'looks different' or they want to talk about historical filmmaking or something technical. i'm gonna predict 'moviegoers' falls out of use in the time period you're referring to.
 
Bill,

For 48 fps shooting, 50 Hz power, you can use 345 degree or 172.8 degree shutter angles.
For 48 fps shooting, 60 Hz power, you can use 288 or 144 degree shutter angles.

In those cases, the light flicker should be eliminated. Someone correct me if I got my math wrong there!

Tony
 
Thank you as always David.

I started searching this thread because I'm shooting a project at 48fps, in 3D with Film Gear 800watt HMI's.
The ballasts have three settings: 'Flicker Free' which flickered at all tested shutter angles, 'Silent', which also flickered at all tested shutter angles and 300hz, which seem safe at all shutter angles. Without any literature I wanted to confirm whether or not I need to stick to 144 and 288.

Also, is it recommended to use absolute shutter speeds instead of relative shutter angles?

Thank you again,
 
Speaking as the person who has likely over-thought light flicker in camera more than is typically appropriate, I agree. Adjust until there's no flicker apparent. Use some knowledge, which can guide you in the right direction, but if 300Hz doesn't flicker, then you're good. Same with absolute speed vs. angle.

If you use absolute speed, it's easy: if the light is 50 Hz, use 1/50 or 1/100 of a sec. If the light is 60 Hz, use 1/60 or 1/120 second. If it's 300 Hz, It probably doesn't matter too much, but you can use 1/300, 1/150, 1/100, 1/75, or 1/60. However, since it's a nice high frequency with respect to the frame rate, it's not terribly important. That's why high-frequency ballasts are nice.

But as you may find, high frequency lights aren't quite so high frequency when the frame rate gets higher... (that sentence got away from me, but you understand.)
 
Tony Davis said:
Speaking as the person who has likely over-thought light flicker in camera more than is typically appropriate, I agree. Adjust until there's no flicker apparent. Use some knowledge, which can guide you in the right direction, but if 300Hz doesn't flicker, then you're good. Same with absolute speed vs. angle.

If you use absolute speed, it's easy: if the light is 50 Hz, use 1/50 or 1/100 of a sec. If the light is 60 Hz, use 1/60 or 1/120 second. If it's 300 Hz, It probably doesn't matter too much, but you can use 1/300, 1/150, 1/100, 1/75, or 1/60. However, since it's a nice high frequency with respect to the frame rate, it's not terribly important. That's why high-frequency ballasts are nice.

But as you may find, high frequency lights aren't quite so high frequency when the frame rate gets higher... (that sentence got away from me, but you understand.)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reinforcement Tony. My confidence was tested when Flicker Free was... well, not flicker free.
I appreciate everyone's feedback immensely.
 
okay, so at some point i'm going to get some eeg (neural oscillations, i.e. brain-waves) testing underway (as i've mentioned previously) in regards to different narrative modes, including high-framerate filmmaking... i've stepped away from the 'official' academic world momentarily, so it's just on my long list of things i have to study. but as long as i'm alive and kickin' i promise it will happen... hopefully this year. if anyone would like to contribute/collaborate on any level of that testing let me know, even if that's just suggesting the rigors of methodology, preferably before the testing begins and not as complaining/dismissing afterwards... quite likely i will be making (or accepting) high-framerate material for testing purposes. so if you have some good artful or entertaining (more than technical/test) material that you'd like to share, let me know (:

interesting, almost-related essay here on 'quantum consciousness'. perhaps those of you guys not into high-framerate filmmaking can at least understand why i'm so passionate about the potential in digital cinema/video art (through storytelling and technology) to 'take you there', to infinity and beyond, as it were. ultimately this has to do with the magick craft of audio-visual storytelling, but that's intrinsically wrapped up in human technology and ultimately how that interacts with our biology. 24fps is a great slow-state. but i'm also interested in heightened and altered states in storytelling. i believe this happens naturally in other storytelling mediums, and i intend to prove it. film has been the most 'deterministic' format for storytelling-time, and i don't necessarily view that as all-positive, and i intend to experiment with alternative approaches.

5.4 Orch OR, NDEs, and Altered States

Orch OR assumes consciousness typically occurs in the human brain at around 40 Hz, i.e., 40 conscious moments per second, corresponding with gamma synchrony EEG, the best measurable correlate of consciousness. For t=25 ms (1/40 s), by E = h/t, E corresponds with nanograms of superpositioned tubulins (~10^11 tubulins) distributed in microtubules in thousands of gap junction-connected neurons (and glia), still a very, very small fraction of the brain (total ~10^20 tubulins, 100 billion neurons). In principle, OR and Orch OR (and thus conscious moments) can occur at any scale, in any type of medium, as long as superpositions avoid decoherence…

Tibetan monks reach 80 Hz gamma synchrony during meditation (Lutz et al. 2004) presumably an enhanced, altered state, with twice as many conscious events per second, each at higher intensity. Magneto-encephalography has recorded coherent signals in the range of a kilohertz (1,000 Hz) from human brain (Papadelis et al. 2009), and higher frequency effects (megahertz, gigahertz, terahertz) have been measured in microtubules inside neurons (Bandyopadhyay 2010). Could consciousness shift levels to higher frequencies and greater brain involvement in altered and enhanced states?

…

In altered states, the process of consciousness may shift to different planes, or scales in the brain, with higher frequencies (smaller t), greater intensity, and larger E in terms of number of involved rnicrotubules, neurons, and volume of brain capacity. Consciousness occurring by E=h/t normally at 40 Hz (each conscious moment involving roughly one millionth of brain microtubules) could transition to higher frequencies at, say 10 kHz, megahertz, gigahertz, and terahertz levels. These would involve greater and greater proportions of brain neurons and microtubules. These levels would involve, respectively, 1/10,000th, 1/100th, and, for gigahertz consciousness, the entire brain. Thus altered states of consciousness may involve transcendence to deeper, more intense levels of experience, deeper levels of reality, e.g., consistent with Vedic astral planes or lokas, and enlightenment reached by meditation and spiritual practices. Such enhanced, altered states need not involve alternative dimensions or universes, but rather deeper, more fine scale geometry in nonlocal holographic-like levels or scales in this one universe.

As the Beatles said (Lennon and McCartney 1968):
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly,
The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h11u3vtcpaY
 
HOW MUCH DO WE MISS JIM ? to think some newcomers may not ever been around to read his posts about whats coming and the tidbits that sent out imagination swirling about the NABs and what on earth he concocted ...anyhow if your lerking around Jim , hope your well and having a robusto relaxing.
 
Tony Davis said:
Bill,

For 48 fps shooting, 50 Hz power, you can use 345 degree or 172.8 degree shutter angles.
For 48 fps shooting, 60 Hz power, you can use 288 or 144 degree shutter angles.

In those cases, the light flicker should be eliminated. Someone correct me if I got my math wrong there!

Tony
Click to expand...
this thread got going in a great direction for me, thanks Tony and David! Very helpful tech details on the right combination of fps, MHz, shutter angle etc. since every ballast seems different and not always accurate to their claims! Pre-pro test, test, test ...
 
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