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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4.5 vs 5K

Matthew Quinn said:
word, Ive thought about this. And i hope i made the right choice. I have work lined up this spring and summer where this raven is gonna kill it, if the opportunity comes up to upgrade this camera to the scarlet i may do that, or take the chance to upgrade my epic, as of now having 2 cameras working is a good thing for me
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Personally, I think RAVEN is a great investment for those that need a DSMC2 camera ASAP (and that's affordable).

It's shipping in March. RED has been pretty good about hitting it's delivery times.

The new SCARLET will probably be awesome (I've been calling it the "HAWK")....but I have to imagine it wouldn't ship till probably late summer (JULY? AUGUST? SEPTEMBER?). Or even FALL.

So 1Q 2016 vs 3Q 2016....could be a big difference to many!
 
Tarquin Cardona said:
Hey Scott. I think you have an old 5" touch of mine:) Hope all is going great.

The general rule of thumb that I have experienced but also heard from numerous DPs is that for 4K delivery from Dragon 5k going down to 4K is the sweet spot. Now that is talking for a 4k delivery like Netflix. Obviously 5.5 and 6K even better but there is the balance of amount of data to consider too esp. for narrative with long takes etc... That said. The cool thing with Raven is you will have (I assume) the cleaner look that comes with the better processor and overall improved imaging. Plus they are giving you 3:1 for your 4.5 K so that is pretty sweet right there. I suspect compared to Dragon your 4.5K will be very very nice indeed. And if you are not regularly finishing to true 4K, or for web etc then the Raven is kinda like a BMW 335 twin turbo compared to an M3. Depends who's driving:)
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Haha yup! Good to hear from you. I'll be back in New York for New Years. Lets grab a coffee or something if you're around! Thanks for the analogy BTW
 
Not to beat a dead horse but did I make the right decision by for-going the Epic-MX Upgrade from my Scarlet-X and getting a Raven? There is a small part of me that still wants 5K FF. But then again, Dragon, New Tech, Lighter, Upgradable, etc etc.

Just tell me I did the right thing ;)
 
Scott Lamoreaux said:
Not to beat a dead horse but did I make the right decision by for-going the Epic-MX Upgrade from my Scarlet-X and getting a Raven? There is a small part of me that still wants 5K FF. But then again, Dragon, New Tech, Lighter, Upgradable, etc etc.

Just tell me I did the right thing ;)
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You did the right thing. Dragon sensor + DSMC2 (ie 1.5 stops better than DSMC1!!) + 4K 3:1 and 120fps...is going to be INSANE!

Plus it has Prores and Wifi?

Raven is going to be a BEAST.
 
Scott Lamoreaux said:
Haha yup! Good to hear from you. I'll be back in New York for New Years. Lets grab a coffee or something if you're around! Thanks for the analogy BTW
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Definitely! Lemme know when you are around. Hope you come to peace on which camera to get. Can always wait for Scarlet W or get a BM4.6 if it ever comes out (with no moire:))
 
Scott Lamoreaux said:
Not to beat a dead horse but did I make the right decision by for-going the Epic-MX Upgrade from my Scarlet-X and getting a Raven? There is a small part of me that still wants 5K FF. But then again, Dragon, New Tech, Lighter, Upgradable, etc etc.

Just tell me I did the right thing ;)
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i think you did the right thing bro. imo sell the scarlet, OR wait to see what RED says at nab this year... seems like jarred has a soft spot for the scarlet users, there MAY be a way to send that in for a little credit towards a new one


and ewwww dont consider BMD ursa mini... BAD IDEA hehe =)
 
Matthew Quinn said:
i think you did the right thing bro. imo sell the scarlet, OR wait to see what RED says at nab this year... seems like jarred has a soft spot for the scarlet users, there MAY be a way to send that in for a little credit towards a new one


and ewwww dont consider BMD ursa mini... BAD IDEA hehe =)
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You really think they'll accept Scarlet-MX Brains on a trade-up program? I wish but I highly doubt that. Maybe Scarlet-Dragons I could see...I've had a lot of offers for my Scarlet Package but Im just so hesitant to accept and be without a camera until March.
 
Nick Morrison said:
I don't understand. The camera was originally ONLY 4K. Then it became 4.5K. And now you want 5K? All for $6K?

I love RED, and their generosity, but my guess is there's a limit to what they were able todo. They had room to make the sensor wider (not taller), so they gave that extra 1/2 K to the customer FOR FREE.

I see only good in that!!
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As a Scarlet Dragon owner, when I heard 4.5K, I got a little too hopeful Raven could be a useful B camera for me in conforming higher frame rates and aerials into matching 4K master release shots. I see now it generally won't be what I want which is disappointing. It really is it's own animal and I get that now. It is a much better buy for Scarlet MX owners, anamorphic or lower end conforming strategies, internet and even perhaps as a rental camera/property. You're right, it is a good thing but don't kid yourself about the $6K. This stuff adds up so fast with the cards and accessories...
 
Scott Lamoreaux said:
...is it easily distinguishable if something was shot in 4.5K vs 5K...
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NO

If scope is your goal...
...I bet $100 that only 1 in 1,000 could reliably and accurately tell the difference in best final product form,
perhaps 1 in 10,000 if aquired in 3:1 and exposed well

If in web delivery format I wager 1 in 100,000

The one thing that may be noticable, and I have not tested this,
is if a crop of a larger sensor to the same size of a smaller sensor would yeild a stop difference...
...I'm inclined to think not so much, but I'm not a scientist :idea:
 
Mark T Workman said:
As a Scarlet Dragon owner, when I heard 4.5K, I got a little too hopeful Raven could be a useful B camera for me in conforming higher frame rates and aerials into matching 4K master release shots. I see now it generally won't be what I want which is disappointing.
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I am trying to understand the issue you seem to be having with this 4.5K camera but so far I am unsuccessful in that endeavour.
 
Thanks Daniel. I also hear that the Dragon Sensor is a lot easier to work with in post vs the MX sensor to get colors/skin tones where they need to be.
 
For The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo from Fincher, they just used 3600 pixels wide, using the 1000 extra pixels to reposition and stabilize. And it looks great. I guess you're safe with 4.5k.
 
Scott Lamoreaux said:
Thanks Daniel. I also hear that the Dragon Sensor is a lot easier to work with in post vs the MX sensor to get colors/skin tones where they need to be.
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The DRAGON sensor is night and day better then the M-X sensor. If you gave me a choice between a 4k RAVEN or a hypothetical 8K M-X WEAPON, I would still probably go with the RAVEN.

P.S. I would be willing to wager that you could easily get a more (totally unscientific and completely subjective) pleasing image from a 4k Raven then you can from an Epic M-X at 5K FF.
 
I did a bit of real-estate shooting, the problem I had was controlling light, especially shooting the inside of rooms yet seeing through window if it had a view (where you wanted to show the inside, yet still see the view from the window ... especially true for high end homes). Also there are a lot of dark spots in rooms too, with lot of contrast, very hard to light if it's run and gun. Anyway the dragon is the way to go with that type of dynamic range, I wouldn't go MX. Also people don't like grainy with poorly lite area's on realestate, so I'd lean to the Raven. Hard to tell though until the raven's are out, but for sure go dragon.
 
PatrickFaith said:
I did a bit of real-estate shooting, the problem I had was controlling light, especially shooting the inside of rooms yet seeing through window if it had a view (where you wanted to show the inside, yet still see the view from the window ... especially true for high end homes). Also there are a lot of dark spots in rooms too, with lot of contrast, very hard to light if it's run and gun. Anyway the dragon is the way to go with that type of dynamic range, I wouldn't go MX. Also people don't like grainy with poorly lite area's on realestate, so I'd lean to the Raven. Hard to tell though until the raven's are out, but for sure go dragon.
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I'm curious if RAVEN will use same firmware as other RDC cameras... it would be nice if that were possible but nicer still IMO if they also made a stripped firmware option to keep the camera operation mean and lean.
 
PatrickFaith said:
...I had was controlling light, especially shooting the inside of rooms yet seeing through window...
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ND gel the windows, this is common w/ almost any camera... the fact you don't have to do this with the dragon sensor is huge (its often taken upwards of the better part of a work day to gel out those extra 3~5 stops


I shot a sequence w/ a window, that turned out to "feel" more adult oriented then desired and thus not used, all on MX... one of these days I will post it :001_tt1:
 
Elsie N said:
I'm curious if RAVEN will use same firmware as other RDC cameras... it would be nice if that were possible but nicer still IMO if they also made a stripped firmware option to keep the camera operation mean and lean.
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I'm pretty sure they already do this
 
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