3rd party software and a lot of question from the beginner:-)

[Valentyn Gryb]

Hi, guys.

I'm a video assist, and also i'm doing a backup, copying, rushes rendering and etc on-set.

And i have a few questions
1. About 3rd party software.
I know about R3D Data manager software. I've check it one year ago, today i've request a demo from them once again (my previous trial period was spent useless). May be you know any more usefull 3rd party software? Just interesting.
2. About drive. If it is correct, that there is not only drive inside, there is a raid inside red.drive? Just interesting - i like to understand things which i'm working with.
3. It it planning to have esata/power-esata interface in the near future? I think it is a little bit slow interfaces to download a big amount of infos (FW, USB).
4. On the birger site i saw the viewfinder's information showed on the big screen. If it is any official or 3rd party convertors from the EVF connector to the HDMI/SDI? Is it two way - in other word - if i'll connect any device like this - if everything will be ok for the camera status?
5. It is very often when i really need an information like timecode and take names over sdi outputs. But, i think everybody knows - if it is both of EVF and small monitor is connected - it will disappear from the sdi out. If it possible to make something with this "feature"?
6. It is often here to hear about Clipfinder tool/utiity. What is this and where i can find any usefull infos about?
7. Is there any tools to check only an r3d data to be ok? For example - now, to check consistency of the r3d file i'm trying to render a approres proxy from it. If it is here an easier way to check?
8. Is there any hardware devices specialized on the copying material from red drive/cf/ram to the another media - ie hdd?
9. If i not wrong - an hdmi out is on the red. What kind of video signal on it? Like HD sdi with the described cutting timecode/reel name or it is a copy of output to the onboard monitor?
10. One more. It is a question to the debelopers of the RED. If it is possible to add an arri style buzzer on the red? It is my basic instinct - when i hear this sound - i'm always trying to capture something or at least to check the video - if camera started? That's why i hate last improvement of the ours focus pullers - Leica disto laser distance metter - the frequency and duration of their buzzer pretty close to the sound of my basic instinct.
Also, i think it is good idea, to add something like a flash over the video when camera starts/stop (also arri-film style). It is very often, when you don't lokk directly on the screen, and somebody suddenly starting camera. The small red sign in the left top corner is NOT clearly identified by the side vision, and the same to the changing of the colors of time code. Is it possible?

I'll post any qestions like this here - to avoid cloning the threads.

Valentyn

 

[Valentyn Gryb]

2 more question
It is often here to hear about Clipfinder tool/utiity. What is this and where i can find any usefull infos about?

Is there any tools to check only an r3d data to be ok? For example - now, to check consistency of the r3d file i'm trying to render a approres proxy from it. If it is here an easier way to check?

 

[Valentyn Gryb]

two more

Is there any hardware devices specialized on the copying material from red drive/cf/ram to the another media - ie hdd?

If i not wrong - an hdmi out is on the red. What kind of video signal on it? Like HD sdi with the described cutting timecode/reel name or it is a copy of output to the onboard monitor?

 

[Christian Tanner]

let me just start by answering SOME of your questions. others will chip in i'm sure:

2: yes. the red drive is two hdd's in raid. that's why they're no good in noisy environments and helicopter shots.

3: red announced a red download station a while ago. there's no release date yet though i'm afraid. up until then there's some diy devices (i think evin grant described one?).

5. if i understand you correctly - no, there is NO device that enables the ui-readout on several displays to my knowledge.

here's the link to clipfinder: http://www.daun.ch/software/

hope that helped

 

[Christian Tanner]

Is there any tools to check only an r3d data to be ok? For example - now, to check consistency of the r3d file i'm trying to render a approres proxy from it. If it is here an easier way to check?

you mean as in corruption? yes. there is - as you mentioned already - r3d data manager. for your information (because it's certainly not a good/save idea for on set data back-up): an r3d's file-size is "sort of a checksum" too. if your copied file isn't the same size as it's original, down to the last bit, it means your copied file is most certainly corrupted in some way.

if you meant "consistency" in terms of how the shot compares to others: "clipfinder" is your best friend for browsing clips on set - my personal oppinion.

 

[Valentyn Gryb]

let me just start by answering SOME of your questions. others will chip in i'm sure:

2: yes. the red drive is two hdd's in raid. that's why they're no good in noisy environments and helicopter shots.

10nx.

3: red announced a red download station a while ago. there's no release date yet though i'm afraid. up until then there's some diy devices (i think evin grant described one?).

Waiting for his answer, it is very interesting for me to increase the download time. And a little bit strange for me that RED doesn't release this unit until now and in the next future...

5. if i understand you correctly - no, there is NO device that enables the ui-readout on several displays to my knowledge.

I mean overlay digits and letters disappear when both of EVF and display connected... It seems that i've heard from somebody that this unsuitable situation will be fixed in the nearest firmware.... I didn't speak about DEVICES which reads INTERNAL embedded sdi timecode or any information in the HD-SDI signa. By the way, QtakeHD software can recognize time code, reel names, take names, auto start/stop from based on the HD-SDI embedded information, but only from the 21 firmware of the RED.

here's the link to clipfinder: http://www.daun.ch/software/

10nx

hope that helped

yeah

 

[Valentyn Gryb]

you mean as in corruption? yes. there is - as you mentioned already - r3d data manager. for your information (because it's certainly not a good/save idea for on set data back-up): an r3d's file-size is "sort of a checksum" too. if your copied file isn't the same size as it's original, down to the last bit, it means your copied file is most certainly corrupted in some way.

if you meant "consistency" in terms of how the shot compares to others: "clipfinder" is your best friend for browsing clips on set - my personal oppinion.

Yep. I mean, that i need/searching if there is any software, which, for example, can read a head and a tale of the R3D file, but i don't know exactly the structure and principles of the r3d file, and it is really possible to catch in the situation when header and tail are ok, but between them some parts of the take is corrupt....
I understand, that it is not good idea to copy/back-up infos on-set, but:
a i'm serving mostly a commercial, and due of the nature of commercials - it can lasts only one day and i have to give the copied material just on the set
b I had at least one times when during copying on-set i've found a damaged block, and we've dismissed drive to the repair immediately.
R3d data manager i think is the best software - but checkum is very long process.....

 

[Christian Tanner]

well - to my knowledge - there's only three checks one can do to ensure a shot was correctly recorded and copied.

1. the camera itself states any DROPPED FRAMES on the gui. i consider this the operators responsibility to look out for those, after each take.
2. checksums. either a pro-tool like the r3d-data-manager or at least a file-size comparison when drag-and-dropping.
3. to scrub through your copied content (within e.g. clipfinder, redcinex, etc.).

so i guess my advice to save time is this: do back-ups REGULARLY. between set-ups might be a good idea. don't wait for lunch or wrap.
if, for instance, your DP decides to shoot on cf-cards, like i do, your last back up of the day will be approximately 8min. and since you're a good DIT and backed up everything else onto the clients hd already, it takes only another 8min. or so to transfer it to their disk as well.

by the way - another on-set back-up option, just fyi: http://www.nextodiusa.com/

 

[Valentyn Gryb]

well - to my knowledge - there's only three checks one can do to ensure a shot was correctly recorded and copied.

1. the camera itself states any DROPPED FRAMES on the gui. i consider this the operators responsibility to look out for those, after each take.
2. checksums. either a pro-tool like the r3d-data-manager or at least a file-size comparison when drag-and-dropping.
3. to scrub through your copied content (within e.g. clipfinder, redcinex, etc.).

I hope, somebody using SDK and understanding structure of the r3d files will make it.

so i guess my advice to save time is this: do back-ups REGULARLY. between set-ups might be a good idea. don't wait for lunch or wrap.

Of course. Actually i'm trying to do it after each scene. Additionally, I'm asking rental to do not erase HDDs at least one day after the shoot, if they have possibility.

if, for instance, your DP decides to shoot on cf-cards, like i do, your last back up of the day will be approximately 8min. and since you're a good DIT and backed up everything else onto the clients hd already, it takes only another 8min. or so to transfer it to their disk as well.

Yes, exactly. Usually it takes from 4 minutes till 15 after wrap until i done copying. Also i'm always using UPS to power downconverter, and hard disk drives.

Now i'm trying to find pinouts for the lemo on the Red drive to make a peli case with the automated linux download station inside - just set red drive inside, close the lid and wait until it completely downloading the infos. Because i'm doing it in parallel with video assist, and want to make a hardware unit with completely automated process. Also on the two independent HDD inside, not raid.

by the way - another on-set back-up option, just fyi: http://www.nextodiusa.com/

Ok, 10nx, will read tomorrow on the set between the takes.

 

[Valentyn Gryb]

One more. It is a question to the debelopers of the RED. If it is possible to add an arri style buzzer on the red? It is my basic instinct - when i hear this sound - i'm always trying to capture something or at least to check the video - if camera started? That's why i hate last improvement of the ours focus pullers - Leica disto laser distance metter - the frequency and duration of their buzzer pretty close to the sound of my basic instinct.

Also, i think it is good idea, to add something like a flash over the video when camera starts/stop (also arri-film style). It is very often, when you don't lokk directly on the screen, and somebody suddenly starting camera. The small red sign in the left top corner is NOT clearly identified by the side vision, and the same to the changing of the colors of time code. Is it possible?

 

[Valentyn Gryb]

So, about Esata on the reddrive. Just have a discussion with my friend. He is engineer of the local rental house, and spent some time trying to repair reddrives. What he said to me.

Let's imagine the scheme like a block diagram.

Red - is the computer.
Red drive - is the external hard disk drive.
In usual life we have some connections between computer and external hard disk drive.
Present days - it is very often eSata connection. It means that computer have some controller inside - between the bus and eSata interface. In the hard disk drive - we also have some chips between main controller an sata/eSata connectors. So, if it can be so easy - and it would be an usual esata i-face in the red - everything would be ok. BUT.
Red developers decide to MOVE the eSata CONTROLLER from hard disk drive on the camera side! And thru the lemo connector it is connecting directly to the raid0 controller. So, there is no REAL eSata protocol BETWEEN red cam and reddrive. This interface are INSIDE the camera. Between the camera brain and INTERNAL esata controller for the red drive's raid 0 connections. That's why, i think, we'll newer see the dock stations or esata cable to connect red drive to the usual esata connector of usual pc/mac esata controllers... I still waiting what the official support says, but i don't have the reason NOW to think in another way...... And i'm quite interesting - what is the interface are in the Mother of download stations in the another thread in this forum....