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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

3K R3Ds won't import via L&T

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Uli Kunkel

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I'm cutting a feature shot in 4K, but there are some shots that are 3K. A few of them are overcranked. However, after shooting the overcranked shots, they forgot to change the camera back to 4K, so I have a bunch of clips that are 3K that won't play back correctly when imported with the Log and Transfer window.

Is it safe to assume that 3K cannot be imported from the Log and Transfer window and play back correctly? They seem to come into FCP as 3K rather than be transcoded to 2K ProRes.

QUESTION 1: How can I best ingest these selected 3K clips?

I trying out Red Rushes, but I know this will present an issue when we online 4K using Color. I'm noticing that Red Rushes is importing these clips VERY slowly. My settings are as follows:

Debayer: Half Res (Standard)
Timecode: External
Look Source: Camera
Color Space: REC 709
Gamma Space: REC 709
RESIZING to 2K
Saving as ProRes.

QUESTION 2: Why is Red Rushes taking so long? I've read that it's one of the fasted ways to ingest.


QUESTION 3: When it comes time to online, when we start sending reels to Color, how should we handle these 3K clips that weren't ingested with L&T? Everything should have a common resolution, correct?


QUESTION 4: How do you handle over/undercranked footage using the L&T workflow?

Thanks for any advice you can provide.
 
When L&T takes in 3k images, it does no resizing, they should come in as 3K Pro Res (or whatever you are transcoding to). They will need rendering in the timeline, when you have a 2k setup for your sequence. I'm afraid that's what it is.
Same thing with slomo, you don't have to render them because they are slomo, but because they are 3K.

Rushes takes so long, because it is doing the resizing. Also make sure you tell rushes to use all your processors (which should speed up the process somewhat).

Also, please tell me you are not sitting there watching the system transcode. Set up your batch and go to bed, come back 4 to 8 hours later and a day worth of footage is transcoded.

To Q4 I send them to L&T and render the shots in the timeline, when I have them cut in. They play fine in the viewer. That way you only render what you actually use.
I'm not sure about the COLOR part, but they do have the geometry room, so even if the 3K shows up differently in Color, you can still adjust everything nd render out everything in the same codec and frame size.
 
Thanks for the reply. So since we're using the L&T workflow, finishing in Color, do you think I should just go ahead an import the 3K footage using L&T and render it in the timeline so that it onlines properly in the finishing stage? OR, do you think I could use Red Rushes to resize them to 2K ProRes? If I do that, what do you suggest I do when it comes time to online since they won't batch in like the rest of the clips (i think)?
 
I would stick with the L&T workflow to ensure that everything reconnects in the "online" If your sequence is set up, the resizing is automatic, just some render time involved.

And if there is any question about the resizing in Color, you can easily check in FCP (Motion tab) what exact transformation has happened.

I would use Red Alert/Red Rushes only if I needed to apply some kind of prelim correction. But since the initial transcode is a pure "offline" for me I don't really worry about it and just stick with whatever they set it up as on set.
 
Yeah, sticking with L&T seems to be the best way of doing things. However, FCP does not like playing back the 3K QTs. It's not really something I feel like i can edit with either.

Understandably, I open up a whole new can of worms if I start importing clips using Red Rushes. I've already been forced to import a few clips that way because they were crashing the L&T window. This is obviously something I want to keep to a minimum.

I wonder, though, how would workflow change if the whole film was shot 3K? Would I be forced to do a Red Rushes-Clipfinder workflow?
 
In my opinion I would not use L&T. Its really buggy and crashes way too much. You can still re-link to your .R3D files using REDRUSHES proxies.

I have been doing RED tv and film for a while and we have since stopped using FCP L&T completely.

Not to undermine Jochen, but just so you know the redrushes, clipfinder, MONKEY workflow works.
 
Forgot to answer

ainsophaur said:
QUESTION 1: How can I best ingest these selected 3K clips?

I trying out Red Rushes, but I know this will present an issue when we online 4K using Color. I'm noticing that Red Rushes is importing these clips VERY slowly. My settings are as follows:

Debayer: Half Res (Standard)
Timecode: External
Look Source: Camera
Color Space: REC 709
Gamma Space: REC 709
RESIZING to 2K
Saving as ProRes.

QUESTION 2: Why is Red Rushes taking so long? I've read that it's one of the fasted ways to ingest.
Click to expand...

I use Red Rushes a lot, I have noticed that if you don't tell it to use all 8 processors, it won't. So set it to all 8 and try again.

ainsophaur said:
QUESTION 3: When it comes time to online, when we start sending reels to Color, how should we handle these 3K clips that weren't ingested with L&T? Everything should have a common resolution, correct?
Click to expand...

If you re-link to the _F proxies using Clipfinder once you bring that XML/EDL into COLOR it will link to the .R3D files. You can use the Pan and Scan feature to resize the .R3D's of anysize 4k, 3k to 2k or HD, you can only do this with DPX or .R3D.

ainsophaur said:
QUESTION 4: How do you handle over/undercranked footage using the L&T workflow?
Click to expand...

Don't use L&T, its junk. Don't know any other way to explain it. It has never been stable enough to consider a realistic option for me.
 
I think it might just be wear and tear, I have done about 80 to 120 hours of .R3D this year and I think it just happens.

We had about 3 editing stations and one kona3 finishing station, the last I checked one of the editing, but none of the rest were able to do .R3D log and transfer. All had L&T working fine when we started up this year on our latest project.

I did a test with one station, that couldn't do L&T anymore, totally re-installed everything, OS included and L&T worked again, but how is that a fix? Its a waste of time. If L&T is that unstable, its out of the equation for us.
 
Also, it crashed a lot, when it did work, which is very problematic.
 
John Jonathan said:
If you re-link to the _F proxies using Clipfinder once you bring that XML/EDL into COLOR it will link to the .R3D files. You can use the Pan and Scan feature to resize the .R3D's of anysize 4k, 3k to 2k or HD, you can only do this with DPX or .R3D.
Click to expand...

Thanks John. Since I would be mixing clips imported with RedRushes in with the rest of my clips that were imported with L&T, should I separate those clips from the L&T clips on the reel, drop them into a separate timeline and use clipfinder to reconnect to my R3Ds and generate an XML that I later bring into color? (whew)

My worry is how I should handle RedRushes-imports mixed with L&T imports.

Do you have a preference between Clipfinder and Monkey Extract? I've not used either of them.
 
I just did a successful test that I believe will solve my problem of mixing 3K ProRes with 2K ProRes.

While I was able to import the 3K ProRes Files without a problem using L&T, they didn't play back smoothly in FCP, and they would have been impossibly to edit with.

I tried using Red Rushes to import the clips and resize them to 2K, but then I ran into the problem of not being able to re-link to the R3Ds using the batch process described in the Red in FCS whitepaper.

So here is what I did:

1) Logged and Imported all 3K footage using log and transfer

2) Used the Media Manager's "Recompress" setting to batch convert all of the 3K clips to 2K ProRes to match my sequence setting.

3) I highlighted my 3K clips in FCP, chose "Reconnect Media," and relinked all of them to the lower resolution media that I just made with the Media Manager. They now play back smoothly for editing, and all the logging, reel, and timecode information is retained.

4) After editing the clips into the timeline, I reconnected them to the ORIGINAL 3K media that was imported via L&T window.

5) Using the process described in the whitepaper, I created an offline sequence and re-batched my edited clips using L&T set to Native. Everything worked great.

The only I have to be careful of is keeping track of which clips I've done this process with. I keep a spreadsheet of all clip anomalies like this.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
 
Use Clipfinder, it's an amazing tool.
 
also no reason you can't encode the 3k to 2k pro-res in RR; as long as the file name is intact you should be able to relink and have the geometry room size at 1.5 rather than 2, no issue in relinking; also with RR not only should your processors be set to the max; but also make sure you're telling it to render more than 1 clip at a time!
 
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