3Deep - 3D underwater housing for Epic

[Pawel Achtel]

Hi Lucas,

How can you "spin" numbers in Imatest? The process is 100% repeatable and 100% automated. There is nothing there to "spin".
You shoot SFR chart the best you can and import into Imatest, which produces MTF graph and many other useful information. How otherwise can you compare apples with apples if you do not use industry standard process of measuring optical performance?

As to Mike Hastings, well, the facts speak for themselves. He is yet to provide a single shot of a chart or any measurable, objective and repeatable evidence of what he is saying. So far it is just a hog wash of a threatened competitor spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt.

I'm not even going to reply to his nonesense.

 

[Ross Isaacs]

Pawel - I have no reason to doubt you when you say your system will do these things. But numbers can be spun into whatever you want to spin them into. Look at the small disagreement you and Michael are having... who should a client believe? And what you have here is a CAD design, not a product.

You're mixing marketing and reality. I do look forward to seeing real pictures from the built rig on a 3D IMAX screen capable of showing the 5K resolution... or can IMAX resolve 5K? In Stereo? Using the 4:3 delivery aspect? From an EPIC?

Just saying - lots and lots of variables. I can spin numbers too. ; )

Lucas

Hi Lucas
I am sure everyone on this forum would love to see a few images of the Cameron/Pace 3D Underwater Epic system. You guys are always so secretive with your gear. I guess CPG just keep all their cards close to their chest?
Regards
Ross

 

[Les Dittert]

I am a user that hopes to use side by side for some difficult developing world shoots, and am wishing that it would be easier ....
Tests I have shot with inter-axial at about 10 to 12 cm are not very watchable. Post convergence ( sliding images in X and cropping ) does little to help, as the disparity is the problem.
Future testing will be at 9cm, and without sophisticated processing, I think would be marginally usable for subjects 10 ft away at the closest.
I'm not sure if these distances shrink for underwater photography?

For terrestrial, things just get way too elongated, such as someone holding their arm up at you. The occluded edges are excessive for close subjects which causes viewing discomfort. Obviously occluded edges don't change when you converge in post by sliding the images in X.
Possibilities exist for correcting this via advanced image processing, which my company is pursuing.
Until more one camera/two lens/two sensor rigs emerge, it's my only solution for portability reasons.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Hi Lucas,

How can you "spin" numbers in Imatest? The process is 100% repeatable and 100% automated. There is nothing there to "spin".
You shoot SFR chart the best you can and import into Imatest, which produces MTF charts and many other useful information. How otherwise can you compare apples with apples if you do not use industry standard process of measuring optical performance?

As to Mike Hastings, well, the facts speak for themselves. He is yet to provide a single shot of a chart or any measurable, objective and repeatable evidence of what he is saying. So far it is just a hog wash of a threatened competitor spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt.

I'm not even going to reply to his nonesense.

Pawel, I'm not making any claims about resolution so why am I supposed to provide charts? I'm discussing basic principles.

First of all, my main point was that CA correction is done fairly well, quite a bit on a regular basis, but the disparity issue (as Les says) is a long way from being solved in software, if it is practical at all.

Part of my point about CA is just passing along some of what I happen to know is being done on high level underwater 3D projects that isn't generally published. The other part is simply emphasizing what most people that have followed digital photography at all know which is that CA correction and distortion correction has been around in Photoshop for years and it is even being incorporated as an in-camera function on newer cameras where the lens distortion and CA is known. So I'm not really out to "prove" anything.

There are certainly convergence points, serendipitous combinations of existing products, and disruptive technologies that become "game changers" (as we have seen with the Red cameras), it's just that using water contact lenses with an IA of 10cms isn't one of them.

I completely agree that there are certain shots that are going to totally kick ass with the Nikonos setup - and I'm sure you will publish some - but I suggest that those situations are going to be a very limited subset of the "normal" range of underwater motion picture photography (and I don't mean just macro) - and this isn't based just on "ignorant conventional wisdom" - it is based on the science and how it relates to the variety of underwater shooting situations.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Hi Les,

Have your tests been underwater or topside?

As I explained earlier, there is big difference shooting stereoscopic 3D underwater in that there is never background further than maybe 20m away and, in most cases, there is no background at all. It is the background that creates limitations in your inter-axial distance. Otherwise, there is no reason why you can't shoot subject distance to inter-axial distance of 5:1 as our eyes are used to converge and fuse the images this close with no problem.


Lucas, as to sample images on an IMAX screen: they are coming soon. As they say, the proof is in the pudding and I would be delighted to fly to US and display them next to images produced by Cameron/Pace.

 

[Will Keir]

I'd love to see some images as well, been watching this thread closely.

Hi Lucas
I am sure everyone on this forum would love to see a few images of the Cameron/Pace 3D Underwater Epic system. You guys are always so secretive with your gear. I guess CPG just keep all their cards close to their chest?
Regards
Ross

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi Lucas
I am sure everyone on this forum would love to see a few images of the Cameron/Pace 3D Underwater Epic system. You guys are always so secretive with your gear. I guess CPG just keep all their cards close to their chest?
Regards
Ross

Honestly, we're not that secretive - we're just incredibly busy. We just finished the largest 3D Broadcast Production in history (ESPN Winter X Games) which had 36 rigs delivering 2D and 3D simultaneously to ESPN and ESPN3D - we are prepping for the Masters, which will be about X-Games size. And that doesn't count the concerts, features, special events, and TV that we are working on at the same time. Our technology was the power behind the Academy Awards for Best Cinematography and Best Visual Effects this past year (Hugo), which has sparked a bit of interest...

We will be at NAB with a fairly large presence. Come see us - tons of technology out in the open. ; )
http://expo.nabshow.com/mynabshow2012/public/Booth.aspx?BoothID=146683

I am working with my team on a more comprehensive marketing and outreach presence so we don't appear as secretive. In the meantime, please feel free to reach out to me directly at work - lwilson (at) cameronpace.com.

(Pawel - sorry about hijacking this thread!!!)

Best,

Lucas

 

[Pawel Achtel]

3Deep at Cine Gear Expo

3Deep at Cine Gear Expo

The 3Deep, DeepX housings and footage will be presented in flesh at Cine Gear Expo 1 - 3 June in Hollywood. If anyone would like to hook up for a presentation before or preferably after the show, please let me know ASAP as I'm about to book flights.

BTW, for those that are not familiar, both Pace rig used in Wild Oceans IMAX 3D as well as Solido rig used by Howard Hall were both side-by-side configurations showing that, with the right skill and contrary to Michael Hasting's "test", it is possible to achieve good stereoscopic effect with side-by-side configuration, particularily underwater where infinity is usually only a few meters away. The former was actually shot with two HDCAM cameras using two Fujinon HA10X5B-W50 HD Cine lenses.
I understand that the first beam splitter rig used in IMAX 3D film was used in " The Last Reef 3D", where a lot of macro scenes were shot....unfortunately all through a flat port which compromises wider shots to the point that even 150 lines per picture height can not be resolved on the edges which kind of defeates the purpose of shooting in IMAX format in the first place.

Anyway, I will be available in LA to demonstrate to anyone interested that 3Deep housing produces pictures that are an order of a magnitude sharper than what was possible in the past in any format. Please RSVP a meeting ASAP.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Cine Gear Expo in Hollywood

Cine Gear Expo in Hollywood

A sneak peek before Cine Gear Expo announcement and the first public appearance.
See you at Booth 70 (Band Pro).

 

[jimhare]

Sexy! :cheers2:

A sneak peek before Cine Gear Expo announcement and the first public appearance.
See you at Booth 70 (Band Pro).

 

[Pawel Achtel]

To say that the reception of the 3Deep housing at the Cine Gear Expo was good would be an understatement: it was tremendous!
The amount of interest was owerwhelming: from producers, rental houses, operators and the media. The editor from FD Times labeled 3Deep as the most impressive piece of gear at the show. I nearly ran out of brochures. I'm totally exhausted after the show, but very happy with the feedback. I love this place! :thumbsup:


For those who missed the show, some pictures attached. And, thank you to everyone who stopped to say hello!

The housing is available for sale from Band Pro in US and Europe.

 

[Pedro Guimaraes]

First test!

Can't wait to see some images.....

http://www.bandpro.com/news-a-events/244-deepx-bob-cranston.html

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Pictures of 3Deep have been published on my website:

http://achtel.com/3Deep/index.htm

Also, calculations for depth budget using full Bercovitz formula, for 2% paralax (0.6mm on film) and Nikonos 15mm lens underwater:

nearest - furtherst subject distance
1.0m - 1.4m, focus on 1.17m
1.5m - 2.7m, focus on 1.93m
2.0m - 5.0m, focus on 2.86m
2.5m - 10.0m, focus on 4.00m
3.0m - 20.0m, focus on 5.22m

 

[Pawel Achtel]

...and this is how it was possible to fit two Epics into a single camera housing...

 

[Dave Blackham]

Pawel,

Thanks for this. Please might you be kind enough to show the formula you calculations.

Dave

 

[Pawel Achtel]

The Bercovitz full formula is thought to be the best description yet achieved for defining the parameters involved in stereoscopic imaging.

B = P(LN/(L-N)) (1/F - (L+N)/2LN)

B = Stereo Base (distance between the camera optical axes)
P = Parallax aimed for, in mm on the film
L = Largest distance from the camera lens
N = Nearest distance from the camera lens
F = Focal length of the lens
L-N = T = the front to back thickness of the subject.

In my view, the commonly used simplified Bercovitz formula (when longest distance is infinity), should not be used underwater :hand:

 

[Pawel Achtel]

I'm pleased to confirm that 3Deep, DeepX and related accessories are available from Band Pro in US and Europe.
Packages include lenses...but also, don't forget Band Pro is RED reseller, so you can get the full package, including camera, power, monitor, media, etc... from them too

 

[Jason Goodman]

"Band Pro is RED reseller, so you can get the full package, including camera,"

Are you sure about that? I thought you could only get RED stuff from RED?

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Hey Jason, Yeah, I'm pretty sure they are the only RED reseller.

http://www.fdtimes.com/2011/04/11/band-pro-to-sell-red-epic-with-leica-lenses/

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Optional external monitor housing for the Marshall OR-70-3D Orchid 3D monitor.
The housing contains space for one V-Lock battery.