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3D Underwater: Gates - 3ality Kelp Forest Filming

Johnny Friday

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La Paz, Baja Ca. Sur, Mexico
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...after over a year and a half in development, the Gates & 3ality 3d underwater camera system has hit the water. Further testing is being made locally by Bob Cranston to confirm depth rating and develop underwater procegers of this new underwater 3d system.
To much the delight of myself, i've had the pleasure of working with John Ellerbrock and Bob Cranston who have taken this idea from design to splash down. I've come aboard in the past month and assisted Bob with deploying the rig for the second time into the kelp beds at Catalina Island. This is quite a technical achievement and once you understand the Atom rig itself, you then realize the complications of operating, setting alignment and stereo as well as, and most importantly the quality of 3d and various shots you can achieve.
....Bob and John both will have more to say about these and I'll assume they'll chime in on this. I can say that 3d is new to me and in fact quite easy to understand after shooting and working with the files. Like much other camera work you get it when you have enough hands on time.

Recently we made a trip out to Catalina from July 17-20 and began shooting this rig from Bob's boat. Two of those three days we spent on learning alignment and making the rig more efficient (cabling/monitoring) . Keep in mind this is a completely new rig for us and most of the stereo-ographers working with the Atom rig can do this practically blind-folded. Divers need a few extra tries at it. That said, mission accomplished and alignment is quite easy once one has made thirty plus tries at it. I might mention that alignment is slightly different using the underwater Gates Controllers so this is another learned procedure that is not standard based on the 3ality controls....but, it is similar.

Camera Setup currently inside of the Gates Deep Pulsar Atom (DPA) rig:
*Epic cameras
*Denecke sync device
*Kramer video amplifiers
*3ality FIZ control (w/hayden motors)
*Stereo (convergence & I.O.) underwater hand controller
*FIZ (focus, iris, zoom) underwater hand controller
*External (underwater housed) Transvideo 12" monitor

LENSES: just about any configuration of lens can be used on this rig. We chose to use Nikon Mount with Zeiss 18mm Prime lenses on this shoot, while most seem to prefer the Angenieux 16-42 PL lens combination to cover wide as well as medium work.

...We focused on very specific shots of animal behavior on a tripod 90% of the time and then did a few shots free swimming the housing around in the kelp. Shooting 3d and capturing good 3d is not one and the same. But on sticks underwater you have a number of better choices and options to accomplish this task underwater. This already a tried and tested method based on success by underwater legends like Howard Hall and Bob C. from their previous accomplishments.

...At the moment more testing and learning is in order and happening in California to perfect the procedures as well as the supporting equipment. Bob Cranston is working on further perfecting the ability to put this rig in action quickly and efficiently and perfecting those techniques to work in the field. We are training now and next few weeks on just those tasks and Bob is training other camera operators so that they can understand how to set up the rig and shoot the rig as well as maintain the rig in the field. I can say that it's a "required" course for anyone expecting to shoot this rig and certainly a pre-requisite for purchase or rent.

The footage we recently shot is being processed in-house and will soon be available for download on the Gates, Bob Cranston and Baja Production web sites. I'll also post a notice on this thread to when the download is available. You will be able to download a side by side promo of the 90 second promo we intend to make.

For more information on Rental, Purchase or Training: www.digital3Dsea.com <http://www.digital3Dsea.com>

PHotos attached here:
 

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Just sharing some hopefully useful info....
Expect for us to be evaluating and making changes to simplify as much as possible the new RIG. And many thanks go out to those involved and especially so to Chris Burket in Los Angeles.....a 3d Stereo, Rig Tech Guru who was extremely instrumental for Bob and I to sponge off his knowledge and learn as much as we did while 3 days in LA at 3ality.
 

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Johnny,
Thanks for posting. Looks like you guys had a nice couple days at Catalina. Looking forward to hearing more about the rig and your experience. I know less than nothing about 3D so an educational read. Thanks again.

Jason,
I am a recent convert of 3d....working merely as an a/c topside on a few days shoots. What i have learned recently working with Bob Cranston (Bob's history in underwater 3d speaks for itself working alongside Howard Hall) as well as Chris Burket (a 3d Rig Tech) was over the top. That coupled with 4 days of intense rig setup and working specifically with the Gates DPA housing...i've now opened a new door and can at least begin to grasp many of the techniques that make 3d underwater successful. This is all easy to understand when you are actually working and I'd go so far as to say breaking the rules and then learning from those mistakes.....I've fortunately had few mistakes working with Bob and get it after much more review in the editing room which is where i "almost" equally like to be after being submerged. Certainly the requirements to shoot at this level require a "crack" crew working in coordination. There certainly is no loan operator as many of us are used to when shooting under normal 2d circumstances and Nat. Hist.

I'll try to assemble more notes as the journey continues and post as we go. Next up and important is to get the demo completed and available for download and review by those that wish to see the results. Now that 3d televisions seem to be flooding the market and are almost a norm. However, few new products seem to be available for the mass of 3d tv's.....
 
Johnny,

My opinion was in relation to limitations of a flat port, not a beam splitter, which has its applications to reduce IA distance.

You can have a beam splitter without having to use a flat port, which is precisely what we are working on at the moment (Dual DeepX with a wet beam splitter - still thinking of a name for it - suggestions welcome :laugh: )

BTW, as a clarification, the IA does not limit the closest subject distance, but rather the parallax caused by the distance between the closest and furtherst object in the frame. You can get very small parallax with large IA if there background is close or if there is no background at all (blue water).
 
...and for those of us working tomorrow, we need a solution today. But point taken and i think we all get that R&D is continuing in everyone's backyard with new fixes to come for the factors that limit shooting good 3d. Yes, you can converge extremely close with a large I.A. if you have blue water great....there is nothing to deal with when comes to parallax, but that is merely "one" scene. Shooting a kelp forest film makes that virtually impossible with the exception of a few shots. But again your point is understood.
 
Weren't all 3D films that Bob Cranston and Howard Hall ever made shot with parallel side-by-side rigs?
 
Pawel,
thank you for your input, but can you kindly refrain from derailing this thread sir. Your system is wonderfully put together and success with it.

Quote:
Weren't all 3D films that Bob Cranston and Howard Hall ever made shot with parallel side-by-side rigs?Y

...Yes, they were, but in case you did not see them, the subject material was very specific and well thought out to accommodate the best use of the Solido side by side system. As you pointed out earlier, they chose many scenes with little or no signifcant background to cause paralax. You could hardly make a kelp film with that same rig. The beam splitter obviously just gives you "another" option. Not the only one, just another choice is all.
 
Great stills Johnny! Looks like you guys had a blast, sorry I missed out this time.
 
Chris: We missed you! You are invaluable to setting up and putting this rig in the water. By the way, we finally understand very well the "virtual infinity" setting AND how to set it up topside and underwater. GREAT tool underwater if for any reason rig becomes mis-aligned in the vertical.
Thanks Chris.....
 

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Johnny,

You can get very small parallax with large IA if there background is close or if there is no background at all (blue water).

Pawel, first you should really refrain from pimping your product/ideas on someone else thread. Just saying....not good form.

Also......with all due respect I cannot agree with your statement.

I am a working stereographer.... Not someone who has "played" with 3D and shot a few projects. I have continuously worked on 3D productions almost non-stop for the last 5 years, Worked on $1mil to $40mil 3D features, land, sea and air. In fact I am currently in Brasil shoot a 3D feature right now as I type this.

IA DOES limit closeset distance!!! ....you are completely ignoring "volume"

If I'm shooting an actor against a green screen and the filmplane is 5' away from our actor and greenscreen is behind him.....I'm not going to use a 65mm IA much less anything larger than that!!! This is irregardless of what I would comp into the greenscreen.

If you think that all that matters is parallax.....you are seriously misinformed. One of the most important things stereographers control besides parallax is volume.

Especially when it comes scripted dramatic material.....besides controlling and adjusting parallax values from cut to cut we are attempting to maintain a continuity of volume throughout the story. Increasing both volume in crucial moments and dialing it back at times.

This is precisely why you NEED a beamsplitter becuase you can control this in any situation.


Futhremore.....the sea enviroment is NOT a greenscreen....your have many floating particles and possible objects that because of large amount of possible background disparity over time really start to "bother" a 3D viewer.

With all due respect to Bob and other amazing cinematographers who have shot content on the Solido system and other many IMAX projects shot with side by side cameras (mantello brothers IMAX projects shot with f950, James cameron included).........no honest experienced stereo viewer can say that the 3D produced by those systems was always "good 3D". At one point or another there was a serious stereo issue at any given point. Hubble 3D is a perfect example....some amazing shots...then every once in awhile you want to rip your glasses off or at least close your eye for a few moments.

a side by side system has many advantages indeed. At the same time it really can limit your pallet 3D wise.

Which is why besides few IMAX features....NO feature length 3D movie has EVER been shot entirely with a side by side system.

As a stereographer and rig tech I hate dealing with the complexities of a BS....but I just don't see any other solution at the moment.

I saw your deepx system in person at cinegear. I was impressed. I think it's a great tool to have in my movie making arsenal.....but I wouldn't for a second kid myself about the limitations of a large fixed IA.

A "wet" mirror/lens beamsplitter as you preposed is a intresting idea....I worry about particles and mirror coating dealing with saltwater....reflections....many things....but I am all about new ideas and innovations....

I'd love to see you give it a try and see the results.....just start a new post about it....I'd love to follow your progress.



I wish I was in LA to help you guys out.....looks like your were in great hands with Chris Burkett he has been there with ET rigs since the beginning!! So you guys are lucky to have his help!......aligning 3D rigs is just practice after while you can do it very fast.....with good tracked lens pair you bearly need to fuss with it much.....

Congrats on getting the Gates in the water and making images....it's an incredible system and I can't wait to shoot with it myself.
 
Weren't all 3D films that Bob Cranston and Howard Hall ever made shot with parallel side-by-side rigs?

Again....this is such flawed logic......this is like saying....weren't thousands/millions of people killed by black powder muskets? I don't know about you but I just because they did you wouldn't see me going to Afghanistan with a single shot musket rifle...hehehe.....I'll take a full auto modern assault rifle.

The musket can kill a person just like a assualt rifle....yes....but there is no denying what tool I'd take into battle.....

I like you Pawel and I think you have a great product. Safely say the best side by side underwater 3D camera system in the world. But it is what it is. Trying to convince seasoned professionals like me and many around the world that it can overcome the restrictions of its inherent design is futile.

I can tell you that my first choice would be a Gates Deep atom first, because it gives me the most flexibility.......then depending on the script I might give you a call and use your system for any shot where the situation/script calls for it....that said, it would required a massive budget to have both...
 
I was actually amazed at how sharp the edges of the images from Deep Atom are from the material I just shot during our Coral Sea shoot.
 

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Hey, Pedro.

My reply was not intended to suggest our housings. It was general and related directly to what Johnny wrote.

You are absolutely right about the "volume". I call it "roundness" and, I think we mean the same thing. :laugh:

I agree with you somewhat in that, I think a side-by-side system is complementary to a beam splitter (again in general, not just our systems). Both have different advanatges and drawbacks. I don't see one a replacement for the other.

Ross, I love that "reflection" in the front port :)
 
Pedro,
you were one of few people we talked about availability. NEXT time....you'll want to definitely learn this rig....you should have it down in a day or two easily with all your stereo skills....took Bob and i an eternity to finally figure out the housing controls for the controllers and virtual zero.....but that's divers....they require a few extra steps....and time.
 
Thanks for the consideration !

I'm sure we'll work together sooner or later....

funny enough....just today I shot side by side then in the afternoon shot on the beamsplitter....simply using the right setup for the right situation....

filming in RIO has been amazing...Bobby Settlemire is working as my 1stAC/RIg tech (im DP/stereographer) ......we brought our dive gear and plan on diving on our days off....there is some world class dive sites 2 hours from RIO....maybe someday we will come back with some underwater 3D!
 

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...getting back to the subject, if i may...

...Which is why besides few IMAX features....NO feature length 3D movie has EVER been shot entirely with a side by side system...

Pedro, this is poor argument because no less than ALL underwater 3D IMAX films except for one were shot with side-by-side systems. Interestingly, the one shot with a beam splitter (The Last Reef 3D) had by far the worst 3D I have ever seen. :ack2:

I agree that ideally you would use both types of rigs (beam splitter and side-by-side) if your subject matter varied in size and distance. However, I would not underestimate the image quality factors (distortions, astigmatism, CA, sharpness, etc..) that greatly attribute to "good 3D" by assisting the brain in fusing two images together. Good 3D is not just IA distance - there are many other important factors.

I would also disagree that using both systems would be beneficial to all films. If you are making a film about whales: a side-by-side rig is the only rig you need. If you are making a film about invertebrates, you probably only need a beam splitter rig for the entire show.
 
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