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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

3D Master / Slave + RED RAM Issue

Alex Carr

Alex Carr

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So this more or less has to do with the Master / Slave Software written into Build 20.1.3.

4k 16:9 29.97 RC36

On A Camera, dropped frames were reported on Right Eye, - Slave Camera. After Reload / Reboot / Inspection that particular file was never written to the Right Eye Magazine. Of course it was 100% okay on the Left Eye. From the Right Eye the R3d file was a whopping 84k. Left and Right recording to RAM. Alternate Cables were used, but due to the shortage of RAM I didnt have many options... With Loud Music, Red drive is impossible in this situation...

What I'm wondering is if this particular bug has been addressed in Build 20.1.6, or later. If this is likely a Slave issue then maybe its not particularly safe to use the Master / Slave option. And instead have a RS232 cable that Start / Stops Both Eyes from the MDR, Avoiding using the Master / Slave and doing all settings manually.

Another Issue I had was unmounting the Magazine from the B-Camera Slave Right Eye. I would lose all control by using the Master Slave option, but I had no way to eject the Magazine. Which pretty much forced me to Reboot.

B-Camera was only using 16GB CF Cards,

Anyone have any thoughts or run into this problem before?
 
Anyone Have any ideas? I wasn't on the show on the first day where this happened to A- Camera 5 times... I feel Master / Slave USB maybe is not safe... I only had problems with Slave cameras.

Its like every so often the Slave Right eye camera wouldn't POST/ Or it would report a Dropped Frame and Not POST/
 
I guess many people are not doing this, using this particular way.

The only thing I can think of is maybe USB cable was bumped during the shot, A Camera 3D rig was on a Technocrane,
 
I have not shot 3D. BUT this is what I would try.

-Restoring both cameras. Power cycle.
-Move to build 20.1.6(I don't believe anything changed for master/slave function, but I would try it because I was having trouble with 20.1.3)
-Move to cards on A & B if you have the media or swap ram/cards from slave to master or vice versa
-You say that you lose all control using the master/slave. On the slave camera how are you formatting media? My experience is that ejecting and formatting still has to be done on each camera individually.
-New USB2 Cable

I don't know just a couple of ideas that you probably have already tried. Let me hear your findings please. GOOD LUCK
 
Fishy things,

I would be able to format media only after a reboot because there I would have access, for some reason after we rolled the slave camera (B camera right eye) would become unresponsive.

I think this has everything to do with Master / Slave software. I will try a later build and see if this bug has been taken care of.
 
Hi Alex

I've had the same problem. I think it is related to the slave camera overheating and crashing. Is your slave camera vertical on the 3d rig. i have run tests without the usb master slave and after long periods of recording 10 or 20 mins (even in hot fan mode) i get the same issues on the vertical camera. i've tried a few different build 21 versions and the same problem occurs. Have you found a solution to this problem?
 
I heard of this happening, mostly to Flash media vs. HD. I thought 20.1.6 was the remedy for that. I don't use the master/slave feature anymore. Too many slave lockups. Hoping next release takes care of that.
 
I haven't had a second body to test since the later builds, I'm hoping its fixed. Otherwise Manual Mode... Or a run switch wired with two lemo ports so it shorts the correct connections on both cameras. I'm sure this can be wired through the MDR by use of the rs232 ports so the Cameras can be Engaged from the Handset.

Yes the Slave is the Right Eye Positioned Vertically on the Rig, We added 2/3" spacers to the Red's Back Panel to allow for more ventilation, as it would nearly overheat even with the Fans on HOT. The next time I do this I'm going to stick a Exhaust fan between the Back Panel and the Internal Components, with enough spacers and run 12v power from the lemo port. The right eye cameras were not happy on either of the rigs. Now our environment was very hot for the cameras. But I can think of worse than that,

The Technocrane Rig had two Red RAMS, Everything was great on the Master Camera, I just lost several 4 minute takes on the right eye... There isn't any kind of warning or anything on the camera to alert us of this problem. So we would continue to record normally only to find missing takes once we reloaded. The drive would have say 5-10 takes depending on the setup. And 2-3 Clips 5-7 would be missing in the middle of the RAM. Very strange... I dont think I would use slave anymore, and I should have just gone to Manual.

It would be great if Red added a check to see if a file was actually written after POST has completed, like a little Green check next to something or another. I've never had this problem until working with Slave mode, Its an idea. A warning like that would give me a chance to take 2 1/2 minutes to reboot the camera, reload, and cool it off.
 
If you carefully wrap your drives in a "sausage" of molton or similar fabric, it is my experience that they can work without drop outs even in very very loud environments. Be careful about overheating though.
 
This was a Slave camera Recording to Red RAM and not writing the .R3d file to the slave 3D camera. We couldn't use Red Raids for this job,
 
Yes I did a 3D movie last year with red ram and preston.

First of get rid of the usb master slave cable right away. More problems that it worth. I've done 3 red 3D productions in the last year alone.

I had a similar problem with one camera cutting early. I traced this to the Preston. Weather we were wireless or wired it still happened. Finally after losing some great shots, a big problem on a documentary!! I had enough and just start stopped the cameras by hand.....I had 0 problems after that.

So now that I hear this issue again I would have to blame something about the preston start stop having a issue. They need to address this.

Also we were shooting on a 100 degree runway in reno. The vertical camera will always overheat first. This is because (I believe) the air flow system is not designed to flow air efficiently thru the camera when it is vertical. So it is less efficient at cooling the camera in that position.

As soon as I saw the heat warning I would gaf tape a "granny ice bag" the ones that don't perspire, to the side of the camera and within 60 secs. the warning would go away. This solution has since worked perfectly for me in temps up to 110 degrees. Both 3D and 2D. I never had to use the spacers. The spacers are for last resort only. We were running really long takes, with fan on HOT and never again had any heat issues with the red that warranted "spacing" the camera. The granny ice bags work perfectly.

We were shooting next to 5000hp engines and props with no dropped frames BTW....used red ram and CF cards.

I just did 8 weeks on a Red 3D movie using C-motion. I had absolutely ZERO issues with start/stop. File sizes were always very close to each other from camera to camera. We shot on 20.3 as well. I have since shot more 3D with 20.4 and nothing has changed.

see this thread I replied to from another user on this matter,
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37907&highlight=pedro

In addition C-motion's 3D mode allows you to press the marker button and adjust one lens only. Which is great for matching focus and zoom. With the preston you have to calibrate then lift the motor and skip a tooth to make the lenses match (a pain in the B).

At this point my official recommendation for 3D lens control is 100% for the C-motion. At this moment it is the best. Next this they need to come up with is a lens mapping feature.

Let me know if you have any other issues. I've had alot of experience shooting 3D with the Red. Thankfully getting ready to do a few more projects pretty soon. Excited for all the new developments...
 
Thats what I wanted to do, But we decided to stick with the USB Slave until the end. I'm going to have a preston cable wired to work from rs232 next time, so maybe thats the better way to go. C-motion would be cool, the lens mapping is what is keeping us from trying it.
 
trust me, Ditch the usb. Also, I would stay away from remote start stop from preston until it is tested more thoroughly by them. Seams to be an issue.....rs232 or 4 pin. maybe a bug in thier "3D" firmware version.

Having a camera cut a take early is a major issue and you don't want the directors wrath on your shoulders!

To be safe, do it manually unless you have c-motion, since I have used that alot (over 50 days of shooting) with no issues. There should be nothing keeping you from using thier system. best right now.

I brought up lens mapping as a wish list for future upgrades.
 
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