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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

3840-2160 59.94p delivery requested from 23.976 4K master

C

Craig Parkes

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Ok guys - here is a bit of a conundrum for you.

Using the current commonly available desktop software and hardware, can anyone recommend a workflow for gettin a 3840-2160 59.94p Prores 444 file from a 4096 x 2160 23.98 Prores 444.

The deliverable is based on request of 4K footage for sale to upcoming asian broadcast 4K networks. Handling the conversion seems a bit of a problem.

As far as I know After Effects renderer isn't set up to do this, pull down design was based on fields and the image going out interlaced I believe, although maybe it'll be fine going to 59.94p. If I am incorrect here please correct me.

Compressor seems like it may be set up to this do, because of 1280x720 @ 23.98p - 1280 x 720 @ 59.4. But throwing the task at compressor is something I am a bit doubtful about.

Obviously this sort of deliverable is fairly cutting edge - I would have expected the interested parties to be fine with a 23.976 master and do the conversion at their end, but they seem insistent on either a 29.976p master or a 59.94p master, and a corresponding small segment uploaded to test quality with, and deciding on the best way to do the conversion with what I have to hand is doing my head in, especially as I don't have any way to properly view UHD @ 59.94p once the conversion is done to QC.
 
Interlacing is dead and gone. 59.94(60)p is correct. China is selling 4K TVs like crazy and the broadcasters are moving fast into adoption. They have HDMI 2.0 on all the new TVs now to support 4K 60p.

As for the conversion, it's no different than doing 1080p24 to 1080p60. Premiere, AE, FCPX will all do it. Some with better results. Do some testing. As for the frame size, it's just a crop.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Interlacing is dead and gone. 59.94(60)p is correct. China is selling 4K TVs like crazy and the broadcasters are moving fast into adoption. They have HDMI 2.0 on all the new TVs now to support 4K 60p.

As for the conversion, it's no different than doing 1080p24 to 1080p60. Premiere, AE, FCPX will all do it. Some with better results. Do some testing. As for the frame size, it's just a crop.
Click to expand...

Hey Jeff, that's what I figured - but being in PAL world I've never gone 1080p24 - 1080p60 and my concern is of course around getting an acceptable pulldown.

Google has been of little use - because 90% of the time in the past such questions online are all people going the other way (removing pulldown from 24p in a 60i transport), or the odd ones that are going back up from 24p are going to 60i - which obviously I don't want to do - and a lot of posts don't make clear whether the pulldown is set up to work with progressive footage, especially in After Effects I have seen warnings it won't work going to progressive (but that may be cases were people were wanting to do pull down, but maybe aiming for 30p, not 60p.)

After Effects is where I'd prefer to do the conversion, because I often feel it's the most transparent tool in terms of Color Space management and footage interpretation and bit depth that I have access to, so if you have some first hand experience of this and can give me the thumbs up that it's the way to go I'm all good.

I'll of course do some testing - hate being the guinea pig on this side though - Also, the storage requirements and transfer situation is fairly crazy. Flicking 60GB files up online for '3 minute' samples is a bit of a nightmare from New Zealand, where we've only got the one pipe in and out of the country.
 
Patrick Tresch said:
I was wishing it's a typo error... Who is producing in 59,94 P?
Anyone?
I'm shooting 25p.
I don't understand why they still use the drop frame stupidity for 4k... :banghead:

Pat
Click to expand...

I've been shooting 60P on my last two projects. I actually shoot 60 and 120, so I can selectively get some slow-mo when needed in post.
24p is fading fast, time to let go of that me thinks.
4K buyers are looking for 60.
 
24p may be fading fast - but I'd hate to have to deliver a 50p/i master of a movie from a 60p shot master - that would be less than fun.
 
Progressive pull down will use a 2-3 pattern too. Difference is you are repeating frames instead of fields. Of course this is a very inefficient way to deliver 24p content.

There is such a big disconnect between the content creators, broadcast, and the CE industry. Eg the HDMI forum is really surprised anyone would use 10-bit, which is why 10-bit 60 is limited to 4:2:0. HDMI 2.1 will fix that since they are targeting 3x the bandwidth.
 
Cheers Stacey - logically I know 3:2 Pattern will work for both - I just don't trust that After Effects is going to be coded to handle it right because of it's origins.

Did I mention the suite in front of me is CS5.5 (yes, a dinosaur box I know... Don't ask, not my call at the moment.)
 
Les Dittert said:
I've been shooting 60P on my last two projects. I actually shoot 60 and 120, so I can selectively get some slow-mo when needed in post.
Click to expand...

How do you manage to do a 24p delivery without having a 120 / 240 th of a second shutter look (artefact)? Do you shoot opengate? 360° shutter?

Pat
 
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