35mm Issues which HD doesnt have ?

[Dominik Muench]

Hi Guys

as part of my doctorate essay on HD cameras I am writing a chapter on issues that can arise when shooting with 35mm.
This is by no means supposed to be a film hate topic or another pointless film VS. digital discussion but I'm rather after real, experienced issues or problems you guys had with 35mm which wouldn't have been an issue if you would have shot HD...if that makes sense ?
so let me hear it :hurray:
thanks for the support.

Dom

 

[Adam S]

Film
-Hairs/dust in the gate
-Video tap does not show exactly what the images captured really look like
-Gathers dust particles at various times during the capture, post and display
-Cameras need more regular maintenance
-If the film can is dropped there's a good chance the film will be entirely or atleast partially damaged but you won't know until you develop it
-Film stock costs more
-The film can be damaged at several points during it's life- Loading into magazine, threading into camera, while the camera is running, unloading the magazine, improperly labeled developing instructions, improperly read developing instructions, it can tear during the developing process and cook too longer thus changing exposure, it can break/melt during theatrical projection in the projector, and of course all along the way any improper handling can add dust/scratches
-Accidental over/under exposure without knowing until seeing dailies, this is a huge problem if you can't reshoot the shot
-Can't always use the monitor to see if focus is properly set
-On day exterior shots heavy ND's make it difficult to see through the viewfinder (this is more of an OFV problem than a film problem, but because all film cameras have one and only a couple digital cameras I thought I'd include it)
-Cold weather makes the film brittle and it can, again, get damaged
-If light leaks into the eyepeice it can expose the film and cause problems
-If light leaks into the eyepeice it causes a double image on the monitor which frustrates the people watching it

That's all I can think of at the moment, hope that helps. There's obviously precautions and workarounds to solve most of those problems but those wouldn't answer your question of what issues CAN ARISE.

 

[Dominik Muench]

exactly what i was after, wicked thanks a lot

 

[Stephen Williams]

Film
-If the film can is dropped there's a good chance the film will be entirely or atleast partially damaged but you won't know until you develop it
.

That really made me laugh, Fuji & Kodak send film by post to their clients in Switzerland & I often send film by post for processing. I never had an issue with this or any other from your list. Drop a hard drive is a real issue LOL

 

[Liam Hall]

In my experience HD cameras have many more issues over reliability and quality. Film cameras tend to be built extremely well with few electronic parts. As for the point noted by Stephen above, that made me laugh too. Hilarious!

 

[Douglas Underdahl]

My RED has been as rugged and reliable as the Arri 35BL1 that I owned.

35mm film can only run less than 11 minutes, for the standard 1000' load at 24fps, 4 perf pulldown, or under 22 minutes with 2 perf, or you can get a special order 2000' load from Kodak which is very large. If you have a 6 minute take, you can only do one take per load, for example.

You can put 2 hours of RED footage on a drive and into your pocket. 2 Hours of 35mm with separate audio would need a hand truck.

Film is much more expensive, per second, leading to the "wince" factor when you are doing take after take and slowly getting a better performance, but know that it's costing a great deal.

You can play back HD from drives and watch right after a take; with film you wait until later the next day, usually, or longer.

Every film camera I've owned has been noisier than my RED or my HVX200. Every film camera I've used has required special, troublesome solutions for dealing with the noise they emit on the set for certain scenes, especially in small sets and/or when the cam is close to the talent. My RED has not.

And everything Adam said.

 

[Thomas Wright]

Yeah it wasn't meant to be a dis film thread. I've heard that if a can of film is dented then it's not to be accepted for insurance purposes. That's probably why the above point was made.

Someone somewhere whispers an opinion to someone and all of a sudden it becomes gospel in this industry; I'm not surprised these rumours abound.

I've used rejected film in dented tins before and not had a problem in the slightest but in the interest of the thread:

If you mistakenly put a 16mm lens on a 35mm camera you break the mirror, and that costs buckets to repair. (Again, with right precautions this should never happen, but the fact of the matter is that it can)

 

[Mark Collins]

Film
-Hairs/dust in the gate
-Video tap does not show exactly what the images captured really look like
-Gathers dust particles at various times during the capture, post and display
-Cameras need more regular maintenance
-If the film can is dropped there's a good chance the film will be entirely or atleast partially damaged but you won't know until you develop it
-Film stock costs more
-The film can be damaged at several points during it's life- Loading into magazine, threading into camera, while the camera is running, unloading the magazine, improperly labeled developing instructions, improperly read developing instructions, it can tear during the developing process and cook too longer thus changing exposure, it can break/melt during theatrical projection in the projector, and of course all along the way any improper handling can add dust/scratches
-Accidental over/under exposure without knowing until seeing dailies, this is a huge problem if you can't reshoot the shot
-Can't always use the monitor to see if focus is properly set
-On day exterior shots heavy ND's make it difficult to see through the viewfinder (this is more of an OFV problem than a film problem, but because all film cameras have one and only a couple digital cameras I thought I'd include it)
-Cold weather makes the film brittle and it can, again, get damaged
-If light leaks into the eyepeice it can expose the film and cause problems
-If light leaks into the eyepeice it causes a double image on the monitor which frustrates the people watching it

That's all I can think of at the moment, hope that helps. There's obviously precautions and workarounds to solve most of those problems but those wouldn't answer your question of what issues CAN ARISE.

A lot of those issues can be resolved by paying attention on set,

Also, you should never use the monitor to see if the focus is set properly, even on a digital camera, you always use the eyepiece. This is an issue with cameras like the HVX, who's LCD screen and eyepiece are extremely low resolution and makes focus basically guesswork.

 

[Mark Collins]

If you mistakenly put a 16mm lens on a 35mm camera you break the mirror, and that costs buckets to repair. (Again, with right precautions this should never happen, but the fact of the matter is that it can)

Right precautions meaning you've hired a good first ac and the company you are renting the camera from flat out refusing to sell you a combination of products they know will break the camera.

 

[Liam Hall]

it can break/melt during theatrical projection in the projector

Just for clarity, you don't put camera original negative in a projector.

Though, I'll add X-rays as a potential issue to your list.

 

[Thomas Wright]

Also, as an aside but not an advatage of all digital cameras but the 5D/1D/7D is that you can shoot on Tower Bridge without a permit.

 

[Thomas Wright]

Right precautions meaning you've hired a good first ac and the company you are renting the camera from flat out refusing to sell you a combination of products they know will break the camera.

it can happen

 

[C. Jagan Mohan]

One big difference is SOUND. You need a special recording unit for film. On digital it is bundled. :emote_popcorn:

 

[Jay Gannon]

Just for clarity, you don't put camera original negative in a projector.

Though, I'll add X-rays as a potential issue to your list.

Stills costs if it happen with your only print as many film festival films only have.

 

[axel ebermann]

The one and main determining factor these days is cost. 35mm just tends to burn a hole into your pocket very quicklike.

Another one:

On any kind of video you pretty much see what are recording. With film you usually only see a flickery composite signal that comes from the shutter in front of the gate.

this is a huge advantage if you have clients and/or special effects on set.

 

[Anson Fogel]

Jagan, with most digital, especially red, we shoot second system for sound as well. Just sayin.

 

[Liam Hall]

Stills costs if it happen with your only print as many film festival films only have.

As I understand it, the original poster is asking for issues specific for SHOOTING film. You can shoot on any camera you like and have a theatrical release on film.

 

[Mark Collins]

Jagan, with most digital, especially red, we shoot second system for sound as well. Just sayin.

As do most films, regardless of camera.

 

[David Wyatt]

Weave?

 

[Stephen Williams]

Weave?

Very few cameras will actually be unsteady, it's ususally prints that weave.