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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

$3500 budget PC Desktop - what would you buy?

Plundstr said:
Question is where will Windows be then...? Still ahead or falling behind? So far I have yet to see anything I particularly like about the Mac platform that I wouldnt rather use on Linux, but who knows... as for the ops original question has it been answered yet or have we derailed the thread?
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Definitely getting derailed.

Whether or not we are discussing OS X or Windows systems, the OP's hardware choices are far more gaming oriented than they are post production oriented.

I think the OP's concerns have been addressed though.
 
I think one might also consider what kind of work he actually does... for editing HDV or AVCHD that machine would probably be well enough. For editing RAW were talking a whole different ballgame.
 
I don't believe it has been mentioned, but this is a Real Names forum, requiring either a Full Name (John Doe) or a first/last name and an initial (J. Doe or John D.).

To get this changed, please make a note in the Real Names thread.
 
Hey all, thank you guys for the insights.. I didn't mean for this to be a Mac vs Pc thing but I really appreciate the input..

I have since been rethinking the entire build..

This computer would be primarily used for editing Scarlet footage.. Probably not too heavy on the 3d stuffs but I definitely want to build the most efficient machine possible..

I'm actually a former Mac user but have decided PCland is right for me at the moment.. Nothing against Mac's I've just found that I've been personally happier in PCland..

I'm now going to build around a fast storage base and go from there.. I'm guessing the next several weeks will reveal some new tech to suit my needs..

Will a two processor motherboard be something I should be considering? or will the new i7 2600k be sufficient for a little girl named Scarlet..

love and Aloha, Kalani-
 
This has turned ugly quite quick. Personally, I have never, ever, had a problem with malware since Windows Vista and fail to see what the fuss is about, but that's just a personal experience. Also, don't underestimate the power of a Core i7 Gulftown. Do check the benchmarks here: http://ppbm5.com/Benchmark5.html. It regularly keeps up with the 12-core Xeon systems and almost always outperforms the dual-quad 8-core Xeons. No doubt there are many variables, but just as a general guideline - the Core i7 980X/990X are awesome.
 
Kalani Prince said:
Hey all, thank you guys for the insights.. I didn't mean for this to be a Mac vs Pc thing but I really appreciate the input..

I have since been rethinking the entire build..

This computer would be primarily used for editing Scarlet footage.. Probably not too heavy on the 3d stuffs but I definitely want to build the most efficient machine possible..

I'm actually a former Mac user but have decided PCland is right for me at the moment.. Nothing against Mac's I've just found that I've been personally happier in PCland..

I'm now going to build around a fast storage base and go from there.. I'm guessing the next several weeks will reveal some new tech to suit my needs..

Will a two processor motherboard be something I should be considering? or will the new i7 2600k be sufficient for a little girl named Scarlet..

love and Aloha, Kalani-
Click to expand...

If you have the money to burn the EVGA SR-2 motherboard plus two top of the line Xeon processors will get you one hell of a machine. Only thing to note is that most cases dont support that particular motherboard.
 
I would wait to buy any computer hardware until the Scarlet is in your hands. Unless you have another work-related use for a $3500 workstation.

Purchase computer hardware only when you need it. That way you're on the beneficial side of "Moore's Law".

A PC can arrive at your door in five business days or sooner. Who knows how long a Scarlet will take to arrive from now?
 
yeah, I heard the SR2 and Revo didn't play nice either.. but now that I'm rethinking and considering dropping the Revo, the SR2 might be in play again..

For the sake of argument, let's just say PC's are damned to hell and plagued with malware viruses...

now back to the best PC build for approx $3500 for the sole purpose of editing Scarlet data..
 
Something else to keep in mind is Mega Machine vs Farm.

Our Render Nodes (i7/Win7) cost about $1k each. Do you really need to spend an extra $1k on a Xeon which delivers.... 20% at most better performance per core or another entire computer which delivers 100% more performance?

If your main workstation is "fast enough" to work real-time (which almost any modern i7 machine + PP is) then you might be better off with a $1500 workstation and 2x $1k render nodes.

I have up to 80 threads right now I can call on at any given time. It's great for cranking through frames but obviously isn't as helpful when you are working. So I would be sure to identify the best allocation of your computing resources: Interactive vs Distributed. Interactive of course lets you make changes faster--but distributed lets you process in the background while you continue to work on something else.

For $3500 I would spend $2.5k on a workstation: Nice i7, solid CUDA card 8+ GB RAM and then a $1000 slave/server/backup machine.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Something else to keep in mind is Mega Machine vs Farm.

Our Render Nodes (i7/Win7) cost about $1k each. Do you really need to spend an extra $1k on a Xeon which delivers.... 20% at most better performance per core or another entire computer which delivers 100% more performance?

If your main workstation is "fast enough" to work real-time (which almost any modern i7 machine + PP is) then you might be better off with a $1500 workstation and 2x $1k render nodes.

I have up to 80 threads right now I can call on at any given time. It's great for cranking through frames but obviously isn't as helpful when you are working. So I would be sure to identify the best allocation of your computing resources: Interactive vs Distributed. Interactive of course lets you make changes faster--but distributed lets you process in the background while you continue to work on something else.

For $3500 I would spend $2.5k on a workstation: Nice i7, solid CUDA card 8+ GB RAM and then a $1000 slave/server/backup machine.
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This is the much smarter route. No sense in paying huge amounts of money for a slight power gain. My system is probably worth 1500 minus the harddrives and it will "edit" scarlet footage just great. and im just using a gtx 480. When it comes to rendering though i will have to invest in some proper render nodes.
 
XiaoSu Han said:
Is it really common nowadays to have a PC that draws 1500W? That's insane!
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Common? As in within one standard deviation from the mean (+/- 34%)? No. Most computers are little Dells, HPs, and the like. And many are a few years old. No serious firepower there.
 
XiaoSu Han said:
Is it really common nowadays to have a PC that draws 1500W? That's insane!
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Well, no. But a work rig should have plenty of safe margins (although 1500W might be excessive, depending on your config). Never, ever, should power draw be at 100% (which is a sure-fire way to get your PSU all worked up and...angry).
 
Erik Franzén said:
Well, no. But a work rig should have plenty of safe margins (although 1500W might be excessive, depending on your config). Never, ever, should power draw be at 100% (which is a sure-fire way to get your PSU all worked up and...angry).
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Very true. Not to mention that many PSUs are labeled with power limits rather like CF cards and SSDs are labelled with bitrates - inaccurately.

I'd wager most 1500W PSUs are incapable of actually handing out 1500W at all, and if they do, they won't do it for long.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
If you really believe that your Core i7 - regardless of the version/stepping, can match up to an 8 Core Mac Pro, you are sadly misinformed.
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Sorry but (from Mac World)....

skitched-20091120-230220.jpg


Check also Cinema 4D Benches : the high end 6 cores (i7 970, 980X & 990X) are really close also from the Apple Octos for the rendering.
 
Benoit - What is that chart for? Rendering times? In what application?
 
I've tried to keep my hands off this thread since my last post. It's become too much of a mac vs. PC thing. And people are losing sight of what really matters in such comparisons. A mac is just a PC. If you want to compare benchmarks between an i7 980 system and an 8-core Mac Pro, that's fine, but just treat it as comparing the i7 980 to a dual Xeon PC. Same difference. There are advantages to either configuration. The reason to choose an Apple system over a Windows PC are the following: OSX, Apple support, build quality and software options. Likewise, there are reasons to choose a Windows PC as well: You can build it yourself and save a lot of money, more hardware choices, wider range of software, but still not everything...

In many situations the 6-core i7 980 will keep up with a dual quad-core Xeon system. Especially if that Xeon system is using the "Nehalem" or previous generations of Xeon CPUs. "Westmere" CPU cores are close to 10% faster than "Nehalem" and you gain further efficiency on multiprocessor apps by having more cores on one CPU, meaning potentially fewer inter-bus and cross-cache transactions.

Now if you want to compare the i7 980 to a dual 6-core 3.4GHz Xeon, then you're looking at a big difference in performance. But only if the software in question can actually use all those processors. And that's another thing to consider. By and large, most software, even multithreaded software, does not scale well beyond 2 (sometimes 4) CPUs. The exceptions are usually 3D rendering apps. Adobe's Mercury Playback Engine scales quite well to somewhere in the 8 to 12 core range and is probably the best example for mainstream software using multiprocessor systems for non-rendering tasks. However, it's just for playback and general use on the timeline for now...

To answer some questions others posed about my last post, I can say that I do get some volume pricing on components as I do build lots of systems. But I don't build enough or buy enough quantity to get the 1000-unit palette price on CPUs or anything like that. I often do buy my components from Newegg and similar vendors because their prices are good. I'm also a regular customer there and have found that they will deal on prices too for volume purchases. If I need 20 HDD's of the same type, it's not enough to kick in the reasonable discounts from many distributors, but I can call Newegg and it's usually worth the effort.

In most situations, I can build an equivalent spec'd PC about 20-30% cheaper than a Mac Pro. I can always find ways to cheap it up more than that, but then it usually involves sacrificing quality or making a compromise somewhere. The one thing I will say about this is comparing a self-built PC to a Mac Pro and then complaining about Apple's prices, is just stupid.

Why is it stupid? First of all, look at what Dell, HP, etc.. are charging for their dual Xeon workstations. Suddenly that Mac Pro doesn't seem so expensive by comparison. Not everyone wants to deal with building a system. Not every company wants to source components and then pay an employee for their time and effort in assembling a PC when they could just go buy one already built. I do build systems for some clients/customers, but the majority of systems I build all go to the same place -- a local datacenter that I manage and support. But when I supply systems there or to another customer, I charge the same prices that Dell, HP or even Apple charge for that same hardware.

The next point to consider... Software. Most of my systems' build costs are exceeded by the installed software. I see far too many people focusing on building a kick ass system and yet they don't do anything with it. Their primary concern is one Application or possibly a few within a common suite -- Adobe CS5 or the like.

Getting back on track with this thread -- $3500 Budget PC... I don't know if I consider a $3500 PC to be a "budget" one. Or maybe the OP was saying he has a $3500 budget to work with.. Either way, the best answer was already given in post #3 by Iannis Holwech. Wait for the next generation i7 and chipset. ..If you can. They are literally a few weeks away, probably mid April availability.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Adobe's Mercury Playback Engine scales quite well to somewhere in the 8 to 12 core range and is probably the best example for mainstream software using multiprocessor systems for non-rendering tasks. However, it's just for playback and general use on the timeline for now...
Click to expand...

I have found the Mercury engine to not only be fantastic on the timeline but it speeds up my renders by huge amounts. When its enabled its like the render doesnt have any color correction at all, the card just pounds through it leaving the cpu to handle the other tasks.
 
Some fixed B3 P67 motherboards are already on sale, few weeks earlier than expected, if you were looking out for a Sandy Bridge system. However, for CS5, the i7 990X continues to be the performance leader. For a $3500 budget, it seems like the best option. As the PPBM5 benchmarks reveal, it's faster than 8-core Xeons and right up there with 12-core Xeon systems.

On the other hand, since you are building this desktop specifically for Scarlet R3D post-production, perhaps you should hold off till you have Scarlet on hand. AMD will be releasing their next-gen 8-core FX series CPUs in June, which are reportedly twice as fast as Phenom II X6 1100T / Core i7 950 for "Rendering" applications. All signs point to it outrunning a Core i7 990X in multi-threaded applications. (which is something the likes of CS5 and Vegas Pro do very well) Good news is that it includes SSE4.1, SSE4.2 and AVX which were sorely missing from the aging Phenom II CPUs. AMD FX could be quite an incredible CPU series and the release timeline seems to fit well with Scarlet's release. June is also around when SSD prices are expected to start falling, and 7200 RPM 1TB platter 3TB hard drives expected.

On the other hand, if you feel you can use the PC today for your current works, don't wait, go ahead and buy the i7 990X.

If you are primarily using CS5, this PPBM5 guide is very helpful.
 
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