240 FPS?

[Jason Hilton]

I'm surprised with the crop frame 2k and crash cam bloodline that this camera doesn't support frame rates higher than 120fps. Is this something that may be added later? Especially for crash cam applications, 240fps is the only thing that's missing...

 

[Andrew Reese]

Would love to see frame rates bumped up. 6K WS/50fps is fine but I would like to see more of an increase once you start to crop in (i.e. 72fps in 5K, 100fps in 4K, and 200fps in 2k). This would put 4k frame rates a lot closer to competitors (i.e. R5 and A7siii) but with the advantage of 16-bit Raw. 4K/100 would be awesome for slow motion work where you can still deliver in 4k to clients and you would have much less crop to get higher frame rates which will make the quality of the footage much more usable than 2k/120 while also still retaining more similar FOV's for wide angle lenses due to less windowing of the sensor. 6k/50 is in line with Pocket 6k but you know a Pocket 8k has to be right around the corner and that camera will definitely do 4k/120 as well which seems to quickly becoming a standard in 2021. I have a Gemini for slow motion work (5k WS/120) but I purchased a stormtrooper with dedicated gimbal work and more complex rigging in mind which is where HFR would be nice for action work. I know I am asking for a lot with very wishful thinking but if RED was able to somehow bump up the frame rates a bit (I know a lot of DSMC1 or Raven/Scarlet guys will be upset) but it would pretty much eliminate the competition from the A7siii, R5, C70, etc. and allow Komodo to play even better with its bigger brothers. I'd love to never have to rig the Gemini on a gimbal again but there are times on certain projects where I prefer at least 4k for HFR.

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

I think a lot of "crash cam" shots are more effective in real-time or close to it.

 

[Russ Fill]

I often wonder if in the not to distant future we will see a Komodo X or Komodo Helium that will have some faster processing to accommodate different frame rates and other features. Id imagine that the little camera is processing as fast as it can right now and would need new or future hardware to do some of processing that we see from the other Red Product line. And might not fit in the little footprint that it does now if it did all things.

 

[Christian Jadot]

Again, I really really hope for 4.5k 2.4:1 @ 72fps.

Or whatever resolution at 2.4:1 will shoot at 72fps. Even if it is like 4.2k to 4.8k-ish, just for a bit of down sampling.

 

[Scott Balkum]

There isn’t enough horsepower in Komodo for higher framerates.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

The day when framerates can be increased by a factor of 2 through a simple firmware update is the day when we essentially won't need hardware upgrades at all, since if framerates, what else? More resolution?
I wish someone with great web design skills could create a website with a clear and educational breakdown as to how camera systems work with a clear hardware and software explanation so that people can get a basic understanding of what is possible and what is not.

There's never any camera release that doesn't also have requests for features that just isn't possible or isn't possible without a massive bump in pricepoint and hardware rework. Getting to 240 fps would require a huge bump in price and that would essentially make it not a crash cam anymore. Technically, any camera is a crash cam, but the point is to keep the price down.

But it also looks like Red did what I pointed out a year ago and positioned the camera away from a pure crash cam and instead market it more as a indie and content creator camera. Which I have always thought was the best place for it to be in. So view it more like a part of the Red family, not as a crash cam, but as an indie filmmaker camera or content creator camera instead of film studio cameras like its big brothers.

 

[Jason Hilton]

I would think that the processing power to manage 6k 40fps would be plenty to drive 240 at 1080p. I admit I don't have the technical understanding of how these things are managed in the camera, but I assume if a Fujion XT-4 can do 240 slow-mo for $1,700 a $6,000 Red could manage it. Again, I'm sure there are limitations I'm not clear on. I know the XT-4 data rates are a lot lower for example.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I would think that the processing power to manage 6k 40fps would be plenty to drive 240 at 1080p. I admit I don't have the technical understanding of how these things are managed in the camera, but I assume if a Fujion XT-4 can do 240 slow-mo for $1,700 a $6,000 Red could manage it. Again, I'm sure there are limitations I'm not clear on. I know the XT-4 data rates are a lot lower for example.

As far as I know, the XT-4 doesn't have a global shutter. It's a combination of everything, not just processing power. You have the processor, then how the sensor actually fires off and capture images, then how the throughput data rates are handled and stored, then compression and file formats, then cooling and managing temperatures during long takes etc.

There are tons of things to take into consideration when judging what is possible for the camera. I've asked for the 5K mode to include just two more frames to reach 50 fps, but even that might be impossible to achieve through firmware upgrades alone. The biggest thing that holds back framerates on the Komodo is the global shutter. It works very differently compared to a rolling shutter and this is a world-first at these DR ranges.

I would assume that Red is working on a next-gen sensor for the big lineup of Red DSMC3 cameras that will have a global shutter feature. I'm not sure they want to step back from that now that they've solved the DR vs Global issue that has plagued CMOS sensors in the past. So Komodo is just as much a fully fleshed out camera as well as a first trial run of sensor tech. We might see a Monstro upgrade in the future, formed as a DSMC3 10K global shutter sensor based on the Komodo sensor tech. That sensor would need to reach the same level as Monstro does in terms of framerates.

But at the moment, Komodo is what it is and for its price it's awesome.

 

[Christian Jadot]

From what I can tell, the Komodo has roughly the same processing power as a Dragon Scarlet DSMC1, if not slightly more ...

And no doubt, Komodo is awesome, it does not seem "gimped" like the other lower tier cameras from RED. I gave RED my money as soon as I could to pre-order the production version. Below are the specs for the DSMC1 Scarlet Dragon vs the Komodo. (I still think 4.2K WS @ 72 fps would be possible!!) Also, vertical resolution is more important than the horizontal for some reason. (Maybe it is not on the Global Shutter?)

Dragon Scarlet

12 fps Burst Mode at 6K Full Format (6144 x 3160)
48 fps at 5K Full Format (5120 x 2700), 60 fps at 5K 2.4:1 (5120 x 2160)
60 fps at 4K Full Format (4096 x 2160), 75 fps at 4K 2.4:1 (4096 x 1728)
75 fps at 3K Full Format (3072 x 1620), 100 fps at 3K 2.4:1 (3072 x 1296)
120 fps at 2K Full Format (2048 x 1080), 150 fps at 2K 2.4:1 (2048 x 864)

Komodo

40 fps at 6K 17:9 (6144 x 3240), 50 fps at 6K 2.4:1 (6144 x 2592)
48 fps at 5K 17:9 (5120 x 2700)
60 fps at 4K 17:9 (4096 x 2160)
120 fps at 2K 17:9 (2048 x 1080)

In the end, Komodo is more than what I need. I just wish they had more 2.4:1 resolutions to save on data, pick up the frame rate and just plain old preference for people like myself. (Yes, you can do it in post.)

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

 

[Andy Roberts]

Komodo and all Reds are 16-bit RAW. The FPS you can get from an 8- or 10-bit image vs 16-bit is a huge difference. It isn't just frames per second, but the amount of information that is in the frame... pixels and bit depth.

 

[Rakesh Malik]

I often wonder if in the not to distant future we will see a Komodo X or Komodo Helium that will have some faster processing to accommodate different frame rates and other features. Id imagine that the little camera is processing as fast as it can right now and would need new or future hardware to do some of processing that we see from the other Red Product line. And might not fit in the little footprint that it does now if it did all things.

I expect that it will exist, and that it will be DSMC3...