23.98Psf to 1080i 59.94 Frame Rate Conversion

[doug@stuncreative]

Just wondering how everyone is handling the frame rate conversion. Right now 99.5% of my deliveries are 1080i 29.97/59.94 for broadcast television.

We're shooting everything on RED 4K at 23.98Psf and doing a downconvert using either our Kona card or our HD Cam but I admit it's a bit of a pain to lay-it off to tape and bring it back in for the final finish. We do promo work so we're always mixing new Red footage with existing show clips.

I'd love to include adding pulldown in a Red Rushes or Crimson type workflow. Any hope of that in the new Metafuze? or any other program I don't know about?

Just wondering if anyone has discovered a better way. We use both Avid Nitris DX and FCP.

Thanks,

Doug Ryan
Stun Creative
Los Angeles

 

[Leandro Marini]

Pulldown

Pulldown

We do the same thing at Local Hero Post for projects with fast turn around. You can actually use After Effects to generate the pull down, with excellent results, but the render time is enourmous. When we have the time, we do that.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Just wondering how everyone is handling the frame rate conversion. Right now 99.5% of my deliveries are 1080i 29.97/59.94 for broadcast television.

We're shooting everything on RED 4K at 23.98Psf...

Hmmmm...why are you shooting 23.98 if 99.5% of your deliverables are 29.97/59.94 for broadcast television? Why not shoot 4k HD (Quad HD) at 29.97, or shoot 3k at either 29.97 or 59.94? With RED footage, both Quad HD and 3k scale beautifully in RED Alert to 1080. Do the genres you shoot need to be shot in 23.98?

 

[doug@stuncreative]

Our directors and cinematographers....

Our directors and cinematographers....

all insist that shooting at 29.97 looks like video and only shooting at 23.98 gives you a film look. I've lost this battle long ago.

Doug

PS We do a lot of graphic work and in those situations it works well.

 

[Tom Visser]

all insist that shooting at 29.97 looks like video and only shooting at 23.98 gives you a film look. I've lost this battle long ago.

Doug

PS We do a lot of graphic work and in those situations it works well.

agree, there is absolutely nothing wrong with delivering 1080/23.98 using pulldown to transmit it at 1080i 60Hz. Good displays will detect the 24p framerate and even do a really good job with the reverse pulldown. 1080i is simply the container, it has very little to do with the content being transmitted or how it is displayed.

 

[Steve Gibby]

all insist that shooting at 29.97 looks like video and only shooting at 23.98 gives you a film look. I've lost this battle long ago.

Doug

PS We do a lot of graphic work and in those situations it works well.

Just shooting 23.98 doesn't guarantee you a complete "film look". There's more to a film look or a cinematic look than just frame rate - other factors are lighting, camera movement, subject matter, in the case of shooting raw like on RED, how you process the raw files, and other variables.

I'm assuming by what you mentioned your director and cinematographers say, that they're shooting narrative television content. In view of that, I understand their position.

On the other hand, I produce, direct, and shoot large amounts of broadcast and cable television programming, and stock footage, in genres that routinely call for shooting RED in QuadHD/29.97, 3k/59.94, and 3k 23.98 project frame rate with Varispeed to 48 fps (50% slo-mo) because of the high-motion subject matter - sports, adventure travel, wildlife, certain music productions, etc. With REDCode Raw, processed correctly in post, the look of the footage is organic and fairly filmic in presentation, and the motion is smooth, especially for slow-motion sequences. That's my target zone for the programs I produce, direct, DP, and/or shoot: organic, relatively filmic, and smooth. For the genres I do I'm not trying to totally suspend reality in the audience - but rather suspend some reality while still keeping them relatively close to "the now".

The cool thing with RED is that there are different acquisition solutions quickly available for whatever needs anyone may have. There are good reasons why RED One has frame rates that vary from 1 to 120 fps - to give us more creative options when we want or need them.

Your needs and mine are different - but both are obviously valid approaches and solutions.

 

[Joe Walker]

Just wondering how everyone is handling the frame rate conversion. Right now 99.5% of my deliveries are 1080i 29.97/59.94 for broadcast television.

We're shooting everything on RED 4K at 23.98Psf and doing a downconvert using either our Kona card or our HD Cam but I admit it's a bit of a pain to lay-it off to tape and bring it back in for the final finish. We do promo work so we're always mixing new Red footage with existing show clips.

I'd love to include adding pulldown in a Red Rushes or Crimson type workflow. Any hope of that in the new Metafuze? or any other program I don't know about?

Just wondering if anyone has discovered a better way. We use both Avid Nitris DX and FCP.

Thanks,

Doug Ryan
Stun Creative
Los Angeles

I don't know how much this helps, but what we do is cut our stuff in 1080 23.98psf and then I do an Easy Setup in Final Cut as Kona 1080 29.97 and poof, we're instantly seeing our 23.98 stuff with 3:2 pulldown added go out the back end of the Mac and into our HD deck. Works like a charm. We're using the Kona 3 and this setup has worked flawlessly for us for quite a while.