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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

1st problems in the field...

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Jannard said:
If honesty and being open during development of a new program wins you a case study at Harvard, we are all in bad shape.

Jim
Click to expand...

:)

From what I understand, a business model nowadays consists of obtaining 'advantages' over your competition by whatever means necesary using whatever products already exist.

The one about actually making an inovative product through sheer hard work, dedication, sweat and commitment to quality seems to have died out sometime in the last century before Walmart came along.
 
How would I know my camera's overheating?

How would I know my camera's overheating?

I was wondering what happens when a camera gets overheated. It sounds like
there is a warning sign on the viewfinder of the Red Ones.

What happens when other cameras get too hot? I notice people talk about
getting more noise on the picture, but does anything else happen, like the
camera shutting off or the image become very messed up in color?

I've just finished shooting a project with on a Varicam, and the location was
really hot, over 100 during the entire shoot. I've taken out a 9 foot umbrella
and had it over the camera. Sometimes, of course, we couldn't have that
umbrella, because of the size of it. I didn't notice anything, but it might have
been just that the monitor was too small to notice anything. This makes me
wonder how I could know when it happens.

PS. It looks like you guys are speeding up the process of updating the camera's
feature for the project. I love that!

Regards,
 
Jannard said:
They will make sure the sensor warnings don't go off from here on out.

Jim
Click to expand...

So there is a warning that will let you know your sensor is overheating and does the camera auto shutdown at that time? :)




lol Janghos beat me too it
 
TheThe said:
:)

From what I understand, a business model nowadays consists of obtaining 'advantages' over your competition by whatever means necesary using whatever products already exist.

The one about actually making an inovative product through sheer hard work, dedication, sweat and commitment to quality seems to have died out sometime in the last century before Walmart came along.
Click to expand...

Half the fun of this project is the community. The only way to keep smart guys in the community is to tell the straight scoop. Bullshit is easy to spot. I love what we are doing. And the hurdles we are getting over make the project more worthy. We have no interest in hiding the obstacles because when we get past them, we look better. "Life is pretty easy to understand. Difficult to execute." That will be on my tombstone.

Jim
 
Pywl said:
So there is a warning that will let you know your sensor is overheating and does the camera auto shutdown at that time? :)

lol Janghos beat me too it
Click to expand...

There is a warning on our back status LCD (back of the camera)... but no one is watching that. We will add that to the LCD and EVF info. This is a great lesson. It will be fixed with the next software build.

Jim
 
Awesome news. Heat.. technologies final frontier.

Perhaps The Peltier should have copper tubing exiting the body through contact points in the redrail joints, they would make contact with the aluminium rails so as to use them as cooling rods! or even dissipate it through the bottom tripod plate.. anywhere that metal comes in contact!
 
Jannard said:
"Bombay" and "Romeo" are black. We are looking at paint options... actually, we are looking at a lot of things.
Click to expand...
Having a lighter colored camera would probably help with heat outside, but black is advantageous inside, especially because it's less reflective (and hell, I just think the powdered jet black looks cooler). :) Seriously though, I hope that if new options are unveiled in relation to the color and/or coat of the camera, the current setup will still exist in tandem with them.

Besides, if this company will paint your iPhone for $150, I'm sure they'd be more than happy to paint your RED ONE. :bleh:

P.S. - Thanks for the updates. Most companies would probably work to fix the problem before the production models ship, but they wouldn't dare tell the public about the hiccups along the way. You guys are awesome.
 
Jannard said:
How much of a premium? :-)

Does that mean you don't have faith that we can fix this issue? Or are you going to shoot in 120 degree heat? Or just think it would be cool looking?

Jim
Click to expand...

Seriously? Name your price!!! If there was the slightest chance I could get a machined body I would be ECSTATIC. The heat is really not an issue... I know the issue will be resolved and if not I have unlimited access to water bottles (evian in particular).
But to have an early RedOne machined like my new waterjet wheels for my bike..
 
Thanks Jim,

again and again you have shown all of as(and the rest of them) the incredible relation ship you are willing to mantain with this project and as.

I have to say for a second you had me, (but just for a second) as I intend to take the cameras back to Italy and the shoots in the Sardinian summers get to be up to 45C, the cooling system is so important, yes they will be planty of black umbrellas over the cameras, but it is nice to know that you guys are on it.

Again thanks much for the info and honesty, can count the days to get my babies, in any color, chrome or black.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com
 
Jannard said:
"Life is pretty easy to understand. Difficult to execute." That will be on my tombstone.

Jim
Click to expand...

Amen to that. That so perfectly applies to Moviemaking in general as well. I also agree that smart people will ONLY get involved when there is 100% openess and an objective goal. Like you said, we all are tired of Bullshit and most here can spot it a mile away. There is a reason that people like David Mullen and Mike Curtis migrated to this forum early-on and responded to your initial promise of innovative technology. After all, it's not the same thing to promise that you'll go to the moon than to promise to go to the moon and pull out industrial blueprints and advanced science algorithms and convene a group of todays best experts. Like Mike sais... the proof is in the pudding... And on this forum we all get to see the ingredients to this pudding as it is being baked!
 
janghos said:
You meant white umbrellas?
Click to expand...

No, Black takes in the UV radiation and the heat does not passes true, also the white umbrellas will reflect extra unwanted light in to the shoot.

I use them all the time in Photography, the black Canon 1D body likes the shadows in stead of been left on a tripod under the scorching sun wile the girls have fun splashing cool water on them self.

Ciao.
 
Peltiers? Wowee that must be a hot sensor! I remember buying a peltier to try and keep an old Athlon computer extra cool back in my computer modding days, never did work right, the cool side kept being overtaken by the hot side.
Click to expand...
It might be just to keep the temperature down so that there's less noise.

One example:
http://www.opticstar.com/Run/Astronomy/Astro.asp?s=f91b1c7-48d6-4454-a12-715bb9c35&p=0_10_0_50_200
Cooled CCD
The DS-335C ICE is well suited for Lunar, Solar, planetary and deep sky astrophotography. The camera's cooling subsystem reduces image noise to the bare minimum and allows for very long exposures. This is of great importance in deep-sky photography but not relevant when imaging the Sun, Moon and planets.

Sensor cooling is important when imaging deep sky objects that require exposures of several minutes. As the sensor heats up the thermal noise manifests itself on the image as bright pixels and high levels of background noise. The on-board Peltier cooling subsystem eradicates hot pixels and background noise to produce high quality images.
Click to expand...
 
What sort of video village/monitoring solution is being used?
 
Timecode.

Timecode.

Jannard said:
They even have Timecode!
Click to expand...

The camera now records dual SMPTE timecode tracks. One is a Run Record (Edge) timecode, the other is being Jam Synced to an external source.

Each clip combines Camera I.D, Magazine (i.e. roll) number, Clip number and Date to form the file name, which helps data management in post.
 
I still am taking aback at how honest Jim and the RED team are. I've seen it from the beginning and it's still surprising and much appreciated.

I wonder if it will every fully sink in as to just what level of history we are witnessing?
 
This is really no surprise at all. Thermal noise is always a dominate factor in an imager array. I was wondering if active cooling of the sensor substrate would be utilized. In a number of industrial applications, this is common practice.

Since making "cold" isn't possible, just the movement of heat and in the case of a Pelitier junction cooler, only to the opposite side of the diode array, what is the secondary thermal path? I assume it will be an extruded heatsink of some sort, but how will this thermal load be moved outside of the camera body. Natural convection flow or will there be an active aid (fan) when needed?

The question that this brings up is the impact on the power load, what is the forward junction current and how much additional power load will be added with the cooler (and its support thermal path) engaged?
 
khmuse said:
This is really no surprise at all. Thermal noise is always a dominate factor in an imager array. I was wondering if active cooling of the sensor substrate would be utilized. In a number of industrial applications, this is common practice.

Since making "cold" isn't possible, just the movement of heat and in the case of a Pelitier junction cooler, only to the opposite side of the diode array, what is the secondary thermal path? I assume it will be an extruded heatsink of some sort, but how will this thermal load be moved outside of the camera body. Natural convection flow or will there be an active aid (fan) when needed?

The question that this brings up is the impact on the power load, what is the forward junction current and how much additional power load will be added with the cooler (and its support thermal path) engaged?
Click to expand...

we do have a fan in the camera.. to take away the heat that is pulled back from the TE plate. The fan does crank down when you hit the record button to an inaudible level (which of course can be over-riden)
 
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