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1st Epic - need advice

Joseph Seuferling

Joseph Seuferling

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Hi everyone!
After years of longing for a RED, I am finally getting ready to take the plunge and buy an Epic and all of the various pieces for it. I have been reading numerous posts on the forum here for several months and I have tried to (R)educate myself in this exciting, new world! After much reading and looking at pictures of cameras and rigs that many of you have posted, I am still somewhat unclear on what will be the best pieces to buy. I know there are so many possible combinations for various needs. Like many, I need a lightweight rig for handheld and a more robust set-up for studio work.
Previously, I have been doing corporate interviews around the world and music videos, both of which I plan to continue doing, however, I also want to shoot an indie feature.
For me, this is a big investment and a big step up. As a newbie I would love to hear any advice I can get. I have assembled my equipment list - is there anything major I am forgetting? Anything I wont really need or use much in the field? A better combination?

EPIC-X BRAIN
AC POWER ADAPTOR (DSMC)
LCD/EVF CABLE (RIGHT-TO-STRAIGHT) - 18in
DSMC SIDE HANDLE
RED TOUCH 5.0" LCD
DSMC 1.8" SSD SIDE MODULE
DSMC Ti PL MOUNT
DSMC AL CANON MOUNT
RED PRO ZOOM (BATTLE-TESTED) - imperial - 18-85mm
2 x REDMAG 1.8" SSD - 64GB
RED STATION REDMAG 1.8"
REDVOLT CHARGER (QUAD)
PRO BATTERY MODULE (QUAD)
2 x REDVOLT XL
BOMB EVF (OLED)
REDMOTE
SLIDING TOP HANDLE
EPIC PELICAN CASE 1510

Wooden Camera:
Shoulder Rig (Premium)
Switronix XP-L95RED
QB Switronix V-Mount
QB Battery Back
A-Box
Bridgeplate
Ultimate Top



I also have some gear that has served me well that I would like to use with the Epic if possible to save some $$$ right now and replace with better later. These are the Cinevate FF and Matte Box, 504 HD head and Gitzo carbon fiber sticks. Thoughts?
I have a top budget amount of $70,000 for everything.

Your feedback is appreciated.
Thanks!
 
I'd really consider a lot more media, especially now prices have dropped.

Also, a lot more RedvoltXL's... and you'll want some Redvolts to put in the side handle (useful when you're swapping Redbricks or V-mounts) as you get to maintain power.

You'll also need a Pro I/O if you want to run touchscreen and EVF at the same time in the field.

You'll find you need good support for the 18-85mm it's big. So look for a 19mm dovetail maybe?
 
You'll need a Module Adaptor for that quad battery module. Any add on RED modules will require them. Don't forget that item.
 
I'd look at the used prices of the Quad Battery Module, before you buy a new one...
 
I might think about the RED Pro Zoom 18-85 again. Since you're getting the Canon mount I assume you already have Canon glass. You might try that out first and see how it goes before buying the lens, you could always get it later. It's a fantastic lens, but is a beast. This is going to be like a trip to Home Depot once you get started. There will inevitably be more (many?) items that you soon discover you'll need. Better to get a basic setup and then start adding the various bits and pieces as needed. RED will be glad to sell you those too.

On your list I'd suggest the following adjustments:

4 Redvolts. I didn't see them on your list and you're going to want them for your side handle when you go ultra light.
2 XLR microphone cables in place of the A Box. I have the A Box, works great, but now that I have the RED XLR cables, not sure I'll ever be using the A Box again. Plus, they're cheaper than the A Box and you don't have to have some place to mount them like you do the A Box.
That Pelican 1510 is a great case, won't hold everything you have listed. You need a bigger case or more than one 1510. See how it goes once you get the first batch and then readjust.
 
Hi Joseph,

Let me give you an early welcome to the RED family! If you have any additional questions regarding RED product don’t hesitate to contact Andrea Dondanville (andrea.dondanville-at-red-dot-com) she is the assigned Bomb Squad to your area.

Best Regards,


Joseph Seuferling said:
Hi everyone!
After years of longing for a RED, I am finally getting ready to take the plunge and buy an Epic and all of the various pieces for it. I have been reading numerous posts on the forum here for several months and I have tried to (R)educate myself in this exciting, new world! After much reading and looking at pictures of cameras and rigs that many of you have posted, I am still somewhat unclear on what will be the best pieces to buy. I know there are so many possible combinations for various needs. Like many, I need a lightweight rig for handheld and a more robust set-up for studio work.
Previously, I have been doing corporate interviews around the world and music videos, both of which I plan to continue doing, however, I also want to shoot an indie feature.
For me, this is a big investment and a big step up. As a newbie I would love to hear any advice I can get. I have assembled my equipment list - is there anything major I am forgetting? Anything I wont really need or use much in the field? A better combination?

EPIC-X BRAIN
AC POWER ADAPTOR (DSMC)
LCD/EVF CABLE (RIGHT-TO-STRAIGHT) - 18in
DSMC SIDE HANDLE
RED TOUCH 5.0" LCD
DSMC 1.8" SSD SIDE MODULE
DSMC Ti PL MOUNT
DSMC AL CANON MOUNT
RED PRO ZOOM (BATTLE-TESTED) - imperial - 18-85mm
2 x REDMAG 1.8" SSD - 64GB
RED STATION REDMAG 1.8"
REDVOLT CHARGER (QUAD)
PRO BATTERY MODULE (QUAD)
2 x REDVOLT XL
BOMB EVF (OLED)
REDMOTE
SLIDING TOP HANDLE
EPIC PELICAN CASE 1510

Wooden Camera:
Shoulder Rig (Premium)
Switronix XP-L95RED
QB Switronix V-Mount
QB Battery Back
A-Box
Bridgeplate
Ultimate Top



I also have some gear that has served me well that I would like to use with the Epic if possible to save some $$$ right now and replace with better later. These are the Cinevate FF and Matte Box, 504 HD head and Gitzo carbon fiber sticks. Thoughts?
I have a top budget amount of $70,000 for everything.

Your feedback is appreciated.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
Andy, Mark, Nils, & Mark; thank you for your responses!
Good info that I did not know.

I will take these sound suggestions to heart.

Thanks Michael - I will send Andrea an email.
 
If you decide upon the RED 18-85mm, then it is highly recommended to get a lens support for that monster. Of course, then you will also need rod support and the clamps/brackets that go with it. The 18-85 has a front diameter of 142mm (reference for mattebox).

Have you budgeted any upgrades to your post workflow? Increased storage? Rocket card?

Have a great time building your system!
 
I'd look into upgrading your tripod too if you go for the 18-85 - I'm not sure of the weight limit on the 504, but think that may be pushing it.

I'd take Mark's advice and see how you go without buying that lens, unless you've seen it in the flesh and are completely happy with the size and weight of it.

Also - do you need the redvolt XLs if you are also planning on making the camera able to take v-locks? It may make more sense to have your 2 different powering options as redvolts and V-locks so you have a clear distinction between the 2, rather than 2 similar capacity/weight powering options.
 
Hi Michael! Hi Ben!
I looked at the Allstar lens support for the 18-85mm, which seems decent, however, Mark, and now Ben have suggested waiting on this, which may be the best idea since I have no experience with this type of lens. Perhaps I should try renting one to get a feel for it.
I agree, Ben, about the battery options after looking everything over again. I was eyeing the Switronix XP-L95RED battery, but would using it affect/void my warranty?
Do I understand correctly that one cannot take Redbricks on planes? Also, what is the consensus on the battery time provided by the Redvolt?

About the workflow, I currently have a Macbook Pro (8.3) with 8GB and internal SSD which I use in the field - this gets connected to a Promise 12TB RAID back at my HQ, My main machine, however is a 27'' Imac (11.3) with 16 GB. I have several smaller mobile firewire drives from 500GB to 2 TB which I have used previously to offload cards on location. Both machines are running OS 10.6.8 w/ FCS and CS6.
I was hoping to squeak by without the RedRocket as I would need an external box for it and I have heard that Premiere/AE can possibly handle pretty well without it (though I don't know if this would be true with my setup!)
I was also thinking about a tape drive system for archiving, such as the BRU Producer's Edition™ from TOLIS Group which I have read about in posts on this forum (though I'm not yet certain of the costs involved).

What do you think? Is this adequate? Will I be crying during transcodes and playback without a rocket? Am I gonna need to get a darn Windoze box? :nonod:
 
Hello Joseph,

Renting that lens to get a feel for it is a great idea! It does require some bits to work with standard rod setups and what better way to test than to rent? (Well, unless you have a local pal that owns one). The Allstar lens support certainly gets the job done, I have that one on mine.

Back in the good ole Red One days (Only last year), there was just slightly less dire need to get tons of storage and optimizing our machines for ultimate speed and superfast throughput, but of course, now with 5K a reality and 6K just a few months away, we are again past the threshold of the cutting edge, YES!. I have been trying my best to get away with not getting a Rocket, but after a 30 hour transcode of 2 hours of 2K footage to 1080P, I have rethought that strategy. Mind you, I was only using an i7 laptop with 8GB of ram. That little experience was an eye opener, and the job did go a long way to help pay for a "Battle-tested" Rocket. Now all I need is to build a computer around that card.

There are more ways to get from R3D to deliverables than ever and everyone has a different workflow, these are great times! CS6 and the mercury playback engine is just immense! But with all the different hardware configurations and workflows, the single universal practice shared here, is to test, test and test.

Best of luck, and have a great time!

Mike
 
RED's timecode work's great ... I'd go dual system record (with something like the 744t) and get the other RED connectors for timecode (or the "b" box from woodencamera or ) ... at least if your doing a feature. Is really nice on interviews btw, since if anything happens to the camera, is no worries. For interviews ... the 64 gig cards could be problematic. Is obvious ... but as a reminder do the order so it is over 50k so u get the free upgrade.
 
Joseph, I live in bellingham, although i have a scarlet, i have most of the things on your list. if you want you can always make a trip up and we can play with the camera set ups and i can run you through a few things that still would help me a lot and stuff to add to your list.

Keep me posted and congrats
 
I soooo appreciate you guys taking time to give a newbie advice!

Patrick - how right you are about the card sizes & interview times - I'm not used to thinking in terms of 4 and 5k sizes! And yes - I will make sure to spend enough to get the Dragon upgrade. As far as going dual system recording for a feature, I had thought about using my Samurai and H4n, but I now see how the 744t would be very valuable! Great heads up!

Michael - you got me thinking about the Rocket. Ouch! I would be gritting my teeth all the way through a transcode like that.

Other bits I am also looking into are the PortaJib Traveller, Flanders LM-2140W and the Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5X Macro Lens

After all is said and done, my wallet may become temporarily raisin-like but my creativity will be super-charged!

Hope to see you this weekend, Domenic.
 
I too am a pretty new RED shooter, so a few recommendations:
* I'd say you need way more RedMags. I have 4x64GB and I will probably invest in two 128GB now with the pricedrop.
* Also, more batteries! Get maybe 4 regular redvolts on top of your XLs. You can't have enough, especially if you shoot outdoors.

I built a completely new PC this spring (been using Mac for the past few years) specifically for editing R3D RAW, with SSDs, 32GB memory, one of the faster Quad Core CPUs and I think I manage okay doing post in Adobe Premiere/AE. No issues with playback at 1/4 resolution. The problem comes when you need to render things and you start to scale and add effects, especially if you have a 2K timeline and add 5K/4K R3D clips on it (so as often as possible, of course depending on project, I these days try to edit everything I do at the native resolution I shot something).
 
Congrats on making the dive, its a big one, but well worth it. I'm the tech for our EPIC rig, and we do own the 18-85 RP. Its a bitchin' lens, but its nickname is "The Potato Cannon". Its big and heavy, but pristine if you need a great PL mount zoom. We originally bought it for our AF100 with LW 15mm rod setups, I eventually landed with the RED Dovetail Quickplate and 19mm rods with the ARRi ls-7 lens support. Simple, clean and solid. Also wth the dovetail, its easy to center balance the rig on the tripod depending on what other access I have mounted.

So, my thoughts on your rig would be-

1) More Mags. Unless you are shooting 2k 18:1, you're going to run out of space faster than you'd like
2) More Redvolts- You can burn through those pretty fast, especially during lon setups where the camera is just sitting there on while you setup the scene. 20 min goes by fast.
3) Think about the belt mount for RedBricks. Ties you to the camera, but still mobile with 90 minutes of run time.
4) As much as I love the 18-85, rent/borrow one before you buy. Everyone I've show that lens to is amazed (and stunned) at how big/heavy it is. The pics on teh website really don't do it justice.
5) Look for used Quad battery mods and the mod adapter. There are a ton out there brand new that people are getting rid of.
6) As for post production, you dont' know how much you need the red rocket card until you try to encode a batch of footage. It can be done, but you might as well wak away overnight and let it do its thing.
7) Leave room in your budget for other bits of kit that you dont' know you need until you need it. Arms, cables, etc.
8) The 1510 case that we got with our kit is great, its small (heavy) but, when i went out for a camera test at a local flower garden, I found that I had 4 cases with me. My biggest beef is that every time I wanted to move to a different location, I had to take the camera rig completely apart to get it back in the case. I HATE that. I need to find a bigger padded case that allows me to keep the basic rig together with the touchscreen or evf, and bottom plate/rails on while still offering great protection. I have the 1510 case for the EPIC, 1 1500 for the mattbox and filters, another 1500 for hardware bits, PIX240 and Audio mixer, another 1510 for redbricks and charger. That's not counting the tripod case.

So, unless you are in a hurry, I'd get a basic setup going, put it together with what you have, and figure out what you need then. Just know that you won't be doing andy run-n-gun handheld with the 18-85 :cheers2:
 
Great decision on going with the Epic. You won't regret it. A couple of suggestions to add to the ones already here:

1 - get the dual module instead of the quad. A lot more handheldable .

2- Get at least 5 64GB redmags

3- get a Red Rocket. You won't regret it.

The red 5 LCD comes with the necessary cables, no need for an additional one!

Get in touch with your Bomb Squad. They are absolutely Excelent - I have only good things to say about the Bomb Squad reps I've been given so far- thanks Kris, Nick and Kelsey!
 
Hi Joseph,

After burning your 70K, save to buy a Clutch, a Leica mount and the 0.95 lens AKA night vision. You'll never regret it.
 
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